The start of my 1957 AMF Roadmaster Pleasure Liner

[chiller662]

A Gambles-sold bike would be badged as a Hiawatha. According to Phil Marshall's list, they started using "G" to mark the year on the bikes in 1957, although the catalog model numbers used a letter for each year from at least 1953. AMF bought CWC in 1951, so I assume 1951 was "A", then 1952 was "B" and so on. Before 1957 the bikes used "55Cw" (1955) and "56Cw" for at least part of 1956, but sometime during the year they started using "F" beside the serial number. After 1957 they went to another system, with the first letter of the serial number giving the year. There's a whole thread on CWC and AMF serials with 60 pages, but @rustjunkie changed the title to give the page with the chart so you don't have to read through the whole thing:

Cleveland Welding S/N Project...See Page 58 Post 576 for chart | Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965

Since many of us have asked, and many of us has now or maybe had in the past a CWC built Roadmaster, I think it's time to start a List. If a picture/serial number list could be started and updated with new entries including frame characteristics, I think we over time could rebuild a serial...

thecabe.com

One day there will be a museum of antique bikes and all information provided will come from the encyclopedia of Oilit lol

 

[TieDye]

A Gambles-sold bike would be badged as a Hiawatha. According to Phil Marshall's list, they started using "G" to mark the year on the bikes in 1957, although the catalog model numbers used a letter for each year from at least 1953. AMF bought CWC in 1951, so I assume 1951 was "A", then 1952 was "B" and so on. Before 1957 the bikes used "55Cw" (1955) and "56Cw" for at least part of 1956, but sometime during the year they started using "F" beside the serial number. After 1957 they went to another system, with the first letter of the serial number giving the year. There's a whole thread on CWC and AMF serials with 60 pages, but @rustjunkie changed the title to give the page with the chart so you don't have to read through the whole thing:

Cleveland Welding S/N Project...See Page 58 Post 576 for chart | Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965

Since many of us have asked, and many of us has now or maybe had in the past a CWC built Roadmaster, I think it's time to start a List. If a picture/serial number list could be started and updated with new entries including frame characteristics, I think we over time could rebuild a serial...

thecabe.com

Actually, 1952 was the first year that they went with 52Cw and that continued through 1956 with 56Cw. In January of 1957, they began using the letters, starting with A#serial number for the MONTH of January in the year 1957. 1957 had a suffix (what's to the right of the full serial number) as G. So, a bike made in January 1957 would have a serial number of A33465 G, as an example. A February 1957 bike would have been B16543 G as an example, and C was March, etc.
1958 bikes had H as the suffix with the first letter being the month of that year, etc. So, an example would be D43678 H, for a bike built in April of 1958. See the accurate chart attached.

 

[Oilit]

Actually, 1952 was the first year that they went with 52Cw and that continued through 1956 with 56Cw. In January of 1957, they began using the letters, starting with A#serial number for the MONTH of January in the year 1957. 1957 had a suffix (what's to the right of the full serial number) as G. So, a bike made in January 1957 would have a serial number of A33465 G, as an example. A February 1957 bike would have been B16543 G as an example, and C was March, etc.
1958 bikes had H as the suffix with the first letter being the month of that year, etc. So, an example would be D43678 H, for a bike built in April of 1958. See the accurate chart attached.

View attachment 1437477

Did you see the Skyrider I posted in the CWC Serial thread? (Post #575, page 58). Going from the headbadge, it's from 1958, and the "H" is at the beginning of the serial, with no suffix. On the other hand, on the 2nd page of this thread -

1950s AMF Roadmaster Luxury Liner Help | Middleweight Bicycles

@Connor Throwing this out there.... If you ever want to part with the fenders, I've got a good example of a '58 Roady who only needs those fenders to be complete... But if you are gunna keep those fenders.... Turn the front one around... It's on backwards :D;) Sorry, but I don't think that...

thecabe.com

- @Mitt25 posted a picture of a nice 1958 Luxury Liner with the serial on the left drop-out, and it has "H" with a 6 digit number, where the one I posted has the "H" with a 5 digit number under the bottom bracket. Have you got a picture of a 1958 with an "H" suffix? I haven't seen one of those.
Also, @Rivnut posted a picture in the CWC Serial number thread (Post # 463, page 47) of a bike with the serial with an "F" suffix, which is why I think they started using the letter suffix sometime in 1956. They started the year with the "56Cw" mark, because I've got a '56 Flying Falcon with that mark, but I think they changed the system before the year ended.

 

[TieDye]

Did you see the Skyrider I posted in the CWC Serial thread? (Post #575, page 58). Going from the headbadge, it's from 1958, and the "H" is at the beginning of the serial, with no suffix. On the other hand, on the 2nd page of this thread -

1950s AMF Roadmaster Luxury Liner Help | Middleweight Bicycles

@Connor Throwing this out there.... If you ever want to part with the fenders, I've got a good example of a '58 Roady who only needs those fenders to be complete... But if you are gunna keep those fenders.... Turn the front one around... It's on backwards :D;) Sorry, but I don't think that...

thecabe.com

- @Mitt25 posted a picture of a nice 1958 Luxury Liner with the serial on the left drop-out, and it has "H" with a 6 digit number, where the one I posted has the "H" with a 5 digit number under the bottom bracket. Have you got a picture of a 1958 with an "H" suffix? I haven't seen one of those.

A weird posting issue here. My reply is below.

 

[TieDye]

@Oilit I have seen a few 1958 with the H suffix, there were a few posted on Facebook in the last 6 months.
The blue Skyrider was made in Arkansas, not in Cleveland. The top of the fork is different than Luxury Liners had in those years.
Depending on the model and with changes being made, and with the plant moving, I'm sure there were bikes that they started stamping with the new location, and other models not. That's what happens when production starts in one location, and is also winding down and being finished at Cleveland until they were totally moved.
So, those times can have different examples, based on models and AMF continuing to make the models more what they want, and shedding the CWC styling as much as possible.
The 1952's and others with the year and Cw, like 52Cw, are stamped with the suffix through those years shown clearly on the chart. Your post was incorrect about those years, but understandable because there were a lot of changes taking place as AMF had to phase CWC methods into their own.
At the time of 1955 a lot of manufacturers starting stamping serials on the rear area. As AMF progressed, they too began stamping there as there was a need to make it easier to find a serial number. And, think about AMF trying to bring in the CWC models into their own existing product line. They made changes to each model as they saw fit, and that included where to stamp the serial number. Not only for their own branding, but to meet some guidelines and manufacturing response to law enforcement having difficulty finding serial numbers on stolen bicycles. There were a lot of changes being made at that time period, all the way around.

 

[Oilit]

@Oilit I have seen a few 1958 with the H suffix, there were a few posted on Facebook in the last 6 months.
The blue Skyrider was made in Arkansas, not in Cleveland. The top of the fork is different than Luxury Liners had in those years.
Depending on the model and with changes being made, and with the plant moving, I'm sure there were bikes that they started stamping with the new location, and other models not. That's what happens when production starts in one location, and is also winding down and being finished at Cleveland until they were totally moved.
So, those times can have different examples, based on models and AMF continuing to make the models more what they want, and shedding the CWC styling as much as possible.
The 1952's and others with the year and Cw, like 52Cw, are stamped with the suffix through those years shown clearly on the chart. Your post was incorrect about those years, but understandable because there were a lot of changes taking place as AMF had to phase CWC methods into their own.
At the time of 1955 a lot of manufacturers starting stamping serials on the rear area. As AMF progressed, they too began stamping there as there was a need to make it easier to find a serial number. And, think about AMF trying to bring in the CWC models into their own existing product line. They made changes to each model as they saw fit, and that included where to stamp the serial number. Not only for their own branding, but to meet some guidelines and manufacturing response to law enforcement having difficulty finding serial numbers on stolen bicycles. There were a lot of changes being made at that time period, all the way around.

That sounds right. I know AMF made a lot of changes in a short period, moving Shelby to Cleveland and then moving both to Arkansas, and I'm still trying to figure out how to tell if a bike was made in Little Rock or Cleveland. My best guess is that it wasn't done all at once, but working out the details is a challenge. I wasn't there, so all I can do is go by the bikes I see, but I've already had to change my mind a couple of times. If you get a chance to post a bike with the "H" suffix, I'd appreciate it.
When you say the top of the fork you mean the head set, correct? The luxury Liner used the spring fork, but I don't know if CWC made that themselves or had at least the forged parts made for them. I'm guessing they may have made the welded up "three plate" fork, but I can't say for sure even there. Most manufacturers use subcontracting to some extent, which just complicates the picture even more when you're trying to sort details. The forged forks on the Flying Falcons look just like the ones on Schwinn balloon Jaguars and the middleweights, so I'm guessing both came from Ashtabula Forge.
And @chiller662, as you can see there's still plenty I don't know!

 

[TieDye]

That sounds right. I know AMF made a lot of changes in a short period, moving Shelby to Cleveland and then moving both to Arkansas, and I'm still trying to figure out how to tell if a bike was made in Little Rock or Cleveland. My best guess is that it wasn't done all at once, but working out the details is a challenge. I wasn't there, so all I can do is go by the bikes I see, but I've already had to change my mind a couple of times. If you get a chance to post a bike with the "H" suffix, I'd appreciate it.
When you say the top of the fork you mean the head set, correct? The luxury Liner used the spring fork, but I don't know if CWC made that themselves or had at least the forged parts made for them. I'm guessing they may have made the welded up "three plate" fork, but I can't say for sure even there. Most manufacturers use subcontracting to some extent, which just complicates the picture even more when you're trying to sort details. The forged forks on the Flying Falcons look just like the ones on Schwinn balloon Jaguars and the middleweights, so I'm guessing both came from Ashtabula Forge.
And @chiller662, as you can see there's still plenty I don't know!

What I am talking about on the top of the fork on the Skyrider bike is different. See the circled areas in the pic I've attached. The styling there is very much like the 1953 Snyder built Hawthorne I have. Roadmasters didn't use forks like that previous to the move. I was NOT referring to the headset. Look at this picture.

 

[Archie Sturmer]

“AMF trying to bring in the CWC models into their own existing production line….”

of bicycles? or bowling pins?

I have not been paying very close attention to these AMF/CWC bicycles of the later almost middleweight era.

I reviewed the fine print on the chart again, and I do not see the 12 letters (A-L or A-M) for the 12 months; was that for 1957 only, or 1952 and later; and did the prefix letters in those days start with an “A” in January; and are there 12 examples, one for each month of the year?

 

[TieDye]

“AMF trying to bring in the CWC models into their own existing production line….”

of bicycles? or bowling pins?

I have not been paying very close attention to these AMF/CWC bicycles of the later almost middleweight era.

Lol.... I know AMF really didn't have a clue. They were trying to mainstream all the bikes and they cut back on a lot of what was normal for CWC. For example, AMF didn't want to bother with 4 to 5 different pedal models that CWC used. Think about pedals. CWC used Torringtons, Persons, and Walds near the end. CWC had women's pedals with 3" and 3 1/2" blocks models 9 and 11. The men's pedals were 4" blocks and models 8 and 10. Then there was the youth pedals with 3" blocks. AMF said no way to all those. They put a 4" block Wald pedal on both men and women's bikes, and 3" on youth bikes. So, they were only down to 2 pedal sizes, one manufacturer of them to stock. Everything they changed was done cheaper and that's why AMF bikes lost their appeal when middleweights were out. Too much cheapening of what was a good bike, and the bikes became the victims of too much of a narrowed vision and no understanding as to what made the CWC bikes so good. They should have stuck with bowling balls. I don't own any of their middleweights because the quality went bye bye. And, what they did with Harley was nothing short of sacrilege too.
I will try to find those H bikes I saw. If so, I'll get screenshots and post them for you.
Deb

 

[Oilit]

Lol.... I know AMF really didn't have a clue. They were trying to mainstream all the bikes and they cut back on a lot of what was normal for CWC. For example, AMF didn't want to bother with 4 to 5 different pedal models that CWC used. Think about pedals. CWC used Torringtons, Persons, and Walds near the end. CWC had women's pedals with 3" and 3 1/2" blocks models 9 and 11. The men's pedals were 4" blocks and models 8 and 10. Then there was the youth pedals with 3" blocks. AMF said no way to all those. They put a 4" block Wald pedal on both men and women's bikes, and 3" on youth bikes. So, they were only down to 2 pedal sizes, one manufacturer of them to stock. Everything they changed was done cheaper and that's why AMF bikes lost their appeal when middleweights were out. Too much cheapening of what was a good bike, and the bikes became the victims of too much of a narrowed vision and no understanding as to what made the CWC bikes so good. They should have stuck with bowling balls. I don't own any of their middleweights because the quality went bye bye. And, what they did with Harley was nothing short of sacrilege too.
I will try to find those H bikes I saw. If so, I'll get screenshots and post them for you.
Deb

I actually get the impression that AMF intended to be a serious competitor, at first. As far as I can tell, they were the first to put a 3 speed hub on a balloon tire bike, and the early Flying Falcon and Shelby Golden Eagle both had some nice features for their day. But AMF seemed to figure out pretty quick that Schwinn's dealer network gave Schwinn an advantage they couldn't match, so then they started shifting their focus to entry-level department store bikes. And by the time they sold H.D. and Roadmaster in the early '80's, it's pretty obvious they were dying from self-inflicted wounds.
I hadn't noticed the top of the fork, that's interesting. My AMF Roadmasters are mostly Flying Falcons, which always used the forged forks.