Cleveland Welding or Elgin?

[dirtman]

I had an elderly woman give this to me this weekend, she said her husband 'restored' it 40 years ago and it just sat in the basement.

The best I can tell is that its a mix of parts, the chainguard is obviously from a Colson, the bars are later Wald, the tires are Carlisle w/w, both hubs have fins, the rear rack is Elgin, the fender braces are modern, and the BB cups are too small and loose in the frame. Plus it looks like it was painted with 10 coats of Rustoleum.
But it was free.

For laughs I pumped up the tires and tried to ride it, the thing pedals like a ton of bricks. The BB is a mess, lots of crunching going on in there. The headset is newer wald but functional, the rear hub works but kicks back severely when braking, and the front hub is made of pot metal and cracked in half in the center, likely only being held together by the bearings and cones. Both hubs are marked Musselman.
I had to remove the cg to pedal the thing, its brackets just don't match the frame, but the good thing is I've got a Colson in the shed that can use the CG.
It had a small Elgin headbadge but after looking at a bunch of pics, I don't see an older Elgins with this frame. I can find no numbers anywhere on the frame, the BB shell is clean and has no numbers, the headtube or dropouts are also without any stamped numbers. The pedals are late model reflectorized models more suited on a 70's three speed than this bike.

Did CWC make any Elgins?
If not, I've got a bunch of Elgin bits and pieces to use on another bike.
Something tells me it was built with a combination of spare parts a long time ago.
The paint is old, its got cracks and checking all over it.
The seat is covered in vinyl, with almost no padding, the bell on the bars don't work, and the tires are likely too dry rotted to use. They look like they've been sitting flat for decades right next to a huge boiler.

 

[Boris]

You got yourself one heckuva free bike there! Great bell too.
No help on the frame, but definitely a CW Western Flyer chainring

 

[Boris]

Deleted.

 

[tripple3]

Welcome to the CABE!
Frame characteristics:
How the BB is welded, shape of seat stays, head tube junctions, etc....
It looks CWC to me, with a Colson guard.
Have fun making it better than you got it;
the best is yet to come.
Better pics please.

 

[HARPO]

Please send a ton of photos! We'd like to see the bike from all angles, plus some closeups. Nice that she gave it to you!!

 

[Krakatoa]

Chainring is CWC for Western Flyer...

@fordmike65

 

[fordmike65]

Chainring is CWC for Western Flyer...

@fordmike65

Looking like a Western Flyer badged CWC doublebar with a 38+ Colson "Turkey wing" guard.

 

[Archie Sturmer]

Looks like an early model, (based more on the single picture than wordy description); see truss tube, where it meets head tube.

The ten coats of Rust-Oleum looks nice, and might be reason why the serial number cannot be seen on the bottom bracket crank hanger.

There are threads about when Sears switched from the smaller Elgin badges to the taller, sometime about 1935-36, but CWC-built Elgin does not seem too likely.

 

[1936PEDALER]

Before and after 36 CWC

 

[dirtman]

I tore the bike down this morning.
The rear rack is junk, its rusted through in over 20 spots and has been filled with filler. The rear reflector is an old Lucas glass reflector off of a really old English bike. After looking at ton of pics, I think it too is Elgin.

The bottom bracket had modern Wald cups, a pair of Torrington bearings, with 'H' type stamped on the cages.
The cups were set in place with shims. The cups are 1/8" too small in diameter to press into the frame. The bottom bracket shell is larger than what is on a modern bike. The bb shell doesn't look damaged or wallowed out, its just larger. I couldn't find another shell here with this size ID or ID.

The rims are not a simple drop center pattern, they have an extra shape to them, they're more rounded and not as deep overall as most I've seen. The rims are in fair shape, there's a bit of pitting that's been painted over but its fixable.
Both wheels will need to be respoked, the rear hub is worn out pretty bad, the braking surface inside is badly scored, and the front hub is broken. both hubs are Musselman.
From what I can tell by looking around on the web, a CWC, wouldn't have had finned, 'Musselman Air Cooled' hubs, but that's just an observation. The rear wheel has original long spoke nipples and old spokes that were painted silver, the front wheel has a mix of new and old spokes.

The bars are branded Wald, and likely were new when this was done.
The stem also looks new, but its not like a Schwinn style stem, its only polished on the top surface, the rest of the stem is rough cast.

The crank arms and sprocket are both painted silver, the sprocket has moderate wear but is serviceable. Neither appears to have been chrome plated, they look more like maybe nickle plate or just zinc or cadmium plating.
The bearing cones are likely original and well worn, they will need to be replaced. (Common, Wald cones won't fit, the threading is different and the overall thickness or depth is much different. The right cone is 3/16" thicker than most and the left side has a flange on it that fits over an inner shoulder.

The seat tube is 7/8" ID, the seat post clamp is brazed to the frame, its no removable.

The kickstand works but seems to flip too far forward, it holds the bike up but the tire is just barely off the ground The stand is straight, the pins fit the frame holes snugly but the holes in the frame seem like they're too far rearward. If not, there's something missing from either the frame or the stand. Its as if the holes in the frame are 3/8" too far back in the frame tabs.
The chain is in bad shape, lots of loose links and a badly worn rear sprocket.

I'm guessing this was a rusty old clunker that someone painted up in a hurry.
It was barely rideable, but a new set of hubs, some bb parts, a good chain, and some fresh grease and it'll be useable.

Looking at the inside of the BB shell and steer tube, the bike was a darker red, with almost a purple hint to it originally.
Right now its more of a tomato or fire red.

The frame joints are crude, there's nearly no finishing work done after it was brazed. There are drips, holes, and pits in all the welds.

There are no truss rods, and the fork has no truss supports at the crown. There is also not much room at the top thread wise to add a top bracket either. The Wald headset just barely fits on the threads. There is no space for anything else. The stack height is below the top bearing cup upper rim, and adding any washers to raise it would mean the threads are too short.
If the paint on the steer tube didn't match the paint inside the bb I'd be thinking that the forks were from a different bike.
The forks have open ends. Not just drilled holes like on a Colson I've got hanging out in the shed.

The cg is destined for that Colson and since the brackets on this cg are fixed in place, it will never fit this frame. It sits way high above the sprocket, so there's little doubt that the cg doesn't belong.

I'm thinking that the guy must of had a similar year Elgin which he took the wheels, seat, rear rack, and maybe the fenders from.
Possibly a ladies model that he used for parts?
Its hard to say since I didn't live here then and never met the guy.
I was only there since another neighbor had asked me if I knew anything about old oil furnaces, the old woman's furnace had run out of fuel due to a clogged filter. Another neighbor had replaced the filter, but couldn't get it to draw fuel. It turned out that an old fuel gauge float had settled over the fuel outlet. I was able to fish the old brass float out and get it going again.
I put a new gauge in the tank that another neighbor had as well.
She called me this morning to tell me the heat was working fine and that she found another box of parts.

In that box is a badly battered Western Flyer badge, a clamp on rear kickstand, another saddle, with no padding but longer springs, a 5/8" seat post with a brass shim, a loose 'Elgin' brake arm, some rusty broken spokes, a stripped out front axle, and a pair of blown out BB cups. There's also another shorter set of similar cranks. There's also a well worn New Departure rear hub and a rusty older front hub with no axle. I'm thinking its the left over bits from the two bikes from when ever this was all done.

The paint on the bike is fair at best, it will buff up pretty decent but its the wrong color, and I think its way too bright for a bike this age. The paint on the fenders is better than the frame but the fenders feel real heavy, as if they're full of filler. the bottom of the fenders are rusty and painted over. I'm thinking that the best course of action is to strip it all down and start over, but it'll never be a show piece.
I would like to make it a sound rider though.