A lot of cool bikes

[bulldog1935]

@Jesper that's not the way electroplating works - you can't plate-out brass, nickel silver, etc. which are alloys of several elements with extreme differences in electropotential.
If you dissolve brass or bronze into chemical solution, only the copper plates out. When this occurs naturally, it's called dealloying corrosion - the zinc and tin salt out as white salts, nickel as green salts.

 

[dnc1]

The 'Maclean' is nice but I guess you're paying way over the odds for the rarity value over there.
Nowhere near so rare here and consequently much, much cheaper.
It would have to be the 'Wilier' for me, despite the misgivings over the copper plating, and my gear-changing capabilities, lol.
Super rare everywhere, hence that price tag.

 

[dnc1]

Is it definitely copper plated?
Not just faded 'chromovelato ramato', I thought they were already using copper coloured clear lacquer over polished chrome plated frames when the firm relaunched in 1946.
On Wiliers own history site there is a similar 1946, Cambio Corsa equipped bicycle that is described as a faded example of their original paint colour. It looks very similar to this example in tone.
The other possibility that I'm thinking of could just be a plated frame that never made it as far as the chromium plating bath; usual plating process for these would be Copper, then Nickel, then finally Chromium.
If it is genuinely copper plated though, how recently was it done?
No 'verdigris' anywhere?

 

[Freqman1]

Is it definitely copper plated?
Not just faded 'chromovelato ramato', I thought they were already using copper coloured clear lacquer over polished chrome plated frames when the firm relaunched in 1946.
On Wiliers own history site there is a similar 1946, Cambio Corsa equipped bicycle that is described as a faded example of their original paint colour. It looks very similar to this example in tone.
The other possibility that I'm thinking of could just be a plated frame that never made it as far as the chromium plating bath; usual plating process for these would be Copper, then Nickel, then finally Chromium.
If it is genuinely copper plated though, how recently was it done?
No 'verdigris' anywhere?

The owner told me it was full copper plate. I'm assuming it was done a long time ago but don't know if the plating is contemporary to the bike. V/r Shawn

 

[Schwinny]

The owner told me it was full copper plate. I'm assuming it was done a long time ago but don't know if the plating is contemporary to the bike. V/r Shawn

As I finish the 100 things I have to do this week, that bike starts to come back to me...
I think it went to the back of my head because Ive been on alert and thinking of another one he had and how I will get it.
Sorry, no pictures of that one till its in my garage....

The Villiers was definitely real copper plate. I of course don't know which state it was in, pre chrome or final, but it is definitely real copper and not paint of any kind. You can see places on it where someone has wiped it with 0000 wool in the past. The copper was mottled like an old penny on most of the bike. Kinda like age spots (liver spots) And he was quick to point out that it wasn't worn down appreciably anywhere.
And YES, that's why it was interesting. I got to see the Cambio Corsa up close.

Don't think I'd like it even if my right arm worked, but there isn't anything weirder and cooler that Ive seen yet on a bike.

 

[dnc1]

As I finish the 100 things I have to do this week, that bike starts to come back to me...
I think it went to the back of my head because Ive been on alert and thinking of another one he had and how I will get it.
Sorry, no pictures of that one till its in my garage....

The Villiers was definitely real copper plate. I of course don't know which state it was in, pre chrome or final, but it is definitely real copper and not paint of any kind. You can see places on it where someone has wiped it with 0000 wool in the past. The copper was mottled like an old penny on most of the bike. Kinda like age spots (liver spots) And he was quick to point out that it wasn't worn down appreciably anywhere.
And YES, that's why it was interesting. I got to see the Cambio Corsa up close.

Don't think I'd like it even if my right arm worked, but there isn't anything weirder and cooler that Ive seen yet on a bike.

It sounds amazing, and I would love to see it up close.
Thanks for the insight into the ageing of the copper, its probably genuine.
And as you've probably already read in the 'Cambio Corsa Thread', there really is nothing weirder (definitely) or cooler (possibly) in the world of gear changing.

 

[Schwinny]

Just remembered he sent me a Dropbox link so I may have a lot of pics of that Vilier. I'm on my phone now and no time till tonight but I'll look.

 

[Jesper]

@Jesper that's not the way electroplating works - you can't plate-out brass, nickel silver, etc. which are alloys of several elements with extreme differences in electropotential.
If you dissolve brass or bronze into chemical solution, only the copper plates out. When this occurs naturally, it's called dealloying corrosion - the zinc and tin salt out as white salts, nickel as green salts.
View attachment 1595172 View attachment 1595171

My brain must be numb! Yes, it would be like distilling alcohol out of water; except dealing with elemental ion transfer ending up with a copper (or zinc?) plated surface. Is brass plate done via a hot dip into molten brass? I know it's done somehow; but as you state it wouldn't be feasible as an electroplate (unless there is some buffering method that could be employed in the electrolyte?). Just lack of sleep I guess. Well, I knew copper wasn't a great material for a frame regardless (though our 60 year old Revere Ware pan copperplate still looks pretty good consideringthe abuse it has taken). I come from more of a mechanical engineering background with some electrical sprinkled in. My sis is a chemical engineer and may be able to provide some more insight. Thanks for the "wake-up" call!

 

[bulldog1935]

You simply can't plate zinc if copper is in the same room. Most of the galvanizing we're used to, especially galvalume alloy, is hot-dip, not plated.
Copper is easy to plate, and can be plated electroless - it automatically plates on steel from a slightly acidified copper sulfate solution.

 

[Jesper]

Here's one of those copper plated "ramata" bikes from the 50s. I need to research the photo; it's not mine, but was on sale and I saved this image. It's not a WILIER Trestina though; think it was selling around $2000 (and too high for me!). The newer WILIERS are are cromovelato "copper" finish.

Edit: photo credit for bike is on B&G Legendary Bikes for €2200. Italian(?) brand of "Radius". The above photo doesn't do it justice. As a note, I had purchased (but not at their listed prices) a couple frames from them about 4 or 5 years ago; they wouldn't help retrieve the "cambio corsa" bike even when paid substantial cash to do so (they wanted €1000 to help; I got it retrieved and being shipped for €230 total after offering B&G much more than that).