Wald stem on a 60's Schwinn?

[PCHiggin]

I’ve had several original early 60’s, entry level Schwinn middleweights with that stem. I still have an all original ‘62 Debbie with one. Nothing unusual.

 

[coasterbrakejunkie1969]

These are what I have around here for stamped steel stems.

I've seen the first one also marked Wald No 4 on the quill. This one has only Pat. No. D-204182 on the side
The middle one, the 314, is what I saw recently on a Typhoon, serial number (AJ314388), a green 26" Typhoon with chrome fenders, chrome S7 rims, and a Mag type front sprocket.
The other one I saw was a Gold 26" Typhoon with a four hole sprocket, chrome rims, fenders, and the serial number FA210100.
Both had Wald 314 stems, matching sparkle Schwinn grips, matching S saddles, etc.

The Wald 314 is what I'm used to seeing on Huffy and old AMF bikes from the 70's, not Schwinns. This one is dated 1977.
The 3144 stem is newer, dated 1982.
The smooth stem, does not say Made in USA, it only has the Pat. No. on it.
The same stem is sold today as a the Wald #4.
My guess is that the smooth version was the beginning of offshore production for Wald.
Compared to the 314, the #4 stem is heavier, with thicker steel throughout but with a more open throat area.
The steel is likely thicker to make up for the open design. This one has a random '4' stamped on the side, it may be for the model #4, or be a date code.

I thought about going back to get the one Typhoon, but it needed too much work. The paint was rough, and both rims were badly rusted, plus it both tires were all but splitting open from age.
The cost of finding a good pair of S7 rims and then the cost of a pair of new tires would no doubt exceed the value of one of those bikes here. I've listed some decent looking Typhoons and have never been able to get more than $100 for really pristine versions here. I get more replies when I list a Huffy or Walmart Schwinn than I do for any quality Chicago bike.

View attachment 1595755


This is what I'm used to seeing on nearly all adult upright bikes like the Typhoon, Heavy Duti, Fleet, American, Corvette, Speedster, Racer, Traveler, Breeze, Hollywood, and every other adult Schwinn bike I've had that didn't have drop bars on it.
I have seen a few alloy stems but never on bikes, they all came to me via old shop cleanouts. All of the Continentals and Varsity models I've had came with forged drop type stems.

View attachment 1595754
Typical Schwinn Forged Stems. I've also seen these same Ashtabula stems on other
brand bikes from the 50's and 60's.

I have had a few Typhoons with the first of the three stems you show. It has the recess underneath to allow it to clamp tightly on the bars. I have had the other 2 types make contact with itself before the bars were completely secure and I had to really crank on it to tighten it well. I have had that type flex and squeak as well. That first style is actually a really solid reliable stem.

 

[dirtman]

The Schwinn stem has to be different than the Wald stem on the left above, according to the patent info that stem didn't come about till 1984.
If the stems I saw were different than the common Wald stem I'd have probably just assumed it was just something I hadn't seen before but they were both Wald 314 stems.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the Wald stems, they work fine and are probably lighter than the forged stems but there's just something about seeing that heavy, highly polished chrome forged stem that says SCHWINN to me. It just seems wrong to see a Wald stem on a Chicago Schwinn.
I do realize though that Wald built their fenders, bars and seat posts, and they outsourced the forged stems, forks, and cranks as well. Their hubs were nearly all outsourced as well. Saddles were mostly Messinger back then too. Schwinn really only manufactured the frame and rims. The rest was just painting and assembly.

 

[Majdotkool]

Happy coincidence you guys are talking about middleweight Schwinn stems, while stripping down our 57 Starlet the other day we noticed this stem. The lady that we got the bike from said it was hers as a child. Any chance this stem is original? I couldn’t find much on it while researching.

 

[GTs58]

Happy coincidence you guys are talking about middleweight Schwinn stems, while stripping down our 57 Starlet the other day we noticed this stem. The lady that we got the bike from said it was hers as a child. Any chance this stem is original? I couldn’t find much on it while researching.

View attachment 1595881

View attachment 1595882

That undoubtedly was replaced. The Starlet during that time was a high end piece with the forged stem. Interesting stem though, looks like it was galvanized verses being chromed.

As for some of the budget Schwinn models, the Typhoon model evolved from the Tornado and from day one these were always equipped with the rolled stem. The Spitfire model was another one that had that stem during its run. In the early 40's and 50's the Hollywood was a loaded high end model and then during the 60's it was a base model that had the these stems. I don't collect or buy the models that have the rolled stems but if I did the first thing I would do is replace it.

 

[GTs58]

Now here is something that I might be interested in, but I'd have to change out the stem. @Hastings just posted this cool piece in the Sunday Show and Tell thread. The beginning stages of Schwinn using the Wald stems, a 1954 Hornet. Also notice the detachable kick stand.

 

[Rivnut]

I have a number of late 50s through the 60s middleweights and they all seem to fit the high end / base class findings. The Jaguar, Corvettes, Fairlady, Starlet III, and DeLuxe American have the forged stem. The Hollywood, Typhoons, Speedster, and Tiger have the rolled/pressed stems.

It's a real coincidence that GTs58 should post a picture of a '54 Hornet at this time. I have a 1954 girls bike that is to become a Hornet because when I got it, the built in kickstand had been broken off the frame. So it's getting a Schwinn's 'Detachable' kickstand I'm glad that he posted the picture because my '54 has a forged stem but there's a rolled stem on the shelf waiting for this bike's number to roll around.

 

[Rusty Klunker]

Every 60s typhoon and Hollywood I've seen has had this stamped stem. Dont know if schwinn made it or farmed it out. And like GT said if it has a forged one it was surely changed.

Funny thing as kids with our stingrays we kinda laughed at the huffy stamped stems. But I had a buddy that liked to do burn outs on his ray. On the trails or any little patch of sand on the street he was always doing it. Well one day on the trails he snapped the forged Schwinn stem doing it just ahead of the anchor bolt. We were in metals shop at the time so he made a nice looking 1/4 plate, welded it on and made some aluminum clamps... it didn't look bad.

Gonna make a rider out of this as soon as I can get the stem out.

 

[Jeff54]

That looks like a forged stem in the picture, isn't it?

This might be what I saw. I had no idea they dipped their feet into the cheapie sheet metal stem business, and I still wonder. It's just a patent. Maybe it never made production. On the other hand maybe it is what we see on the green bikes posted above. Anyhow, there's no visible carriage bolt sticking through the patented stem, so I still think I've seen Wald on 70s Schwinns.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/78/78/64/30377f77ef801d/US3385615.pdf

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/98/b2/c1/56107eae379436/US3361455.pdf

View attachment 1595720

Yes, the 1978 Hornet has a forged stem is same as chromed but there's none, it's blackish, and appears to be the exact same as other parts embossed with Ashtabula branding the BMX riders liked so much.. Acordinly, it's been long understood that Ashtabula forged forks were made for CWC pre-war and Schwinn, at least post war and every since, until Schwinn crooked off in the 80's.

Yet while I don't think anybody has evidence but I see no reason why Ashtabula would not have made Schwinn's chromed solid stems too.

And I forgot, my 56 racer has a stamped plate stem on it.

 

[dirtman]

That green '54 Hornet got me thinking a bit, I have a neighbor down the road who's in his mid 90's now, he's got a red Hornet hanging in the back of his garage. I tried to buy it several times but he's saving it for his grandkids.
The bike is red, has no tank, has painted fenders, a sweetheart sprocket, Typhoon cord tires, black grips, black saddle, pull back bars with a forged stem, and a huge chrome casting on the tip of the fender that he said he added. The bike has a massive front basket on it. I remember him showing me how he made custom mounts with leather to protect the chrome when he put it on there. I remember the serial number was an L with almost all 5's and ending in a 1, maybe L555551 or maybe I missed a 5, not sure. I used to deliver newspapers myself as a kid, I had wanted that bike for my own use but he wouldn't sell it then either. Its not moved in at least 45 years that I know of. (It was still hanging there last summer when I stopped to see how he was doing).
His doesn't have the Schwinn rear rack, its got a huge black steel rack with an old wire milk crate attached to it with twisted wire.
It doesn't have a tank, but the paint scheme is like the green one above. Otherwise its on par condition wise with the one above as well.
(He also had a 57 Raleigh Sports that I did manage to get him to sell me about 30 years ago, but that bike wasn't his, it belonged to his father-in-law.).
I did take the Hornet down off its hooks for him years ago, I pumped up the tires and oiled the chain a bit and rode it up and down his driveway but he wouldn't part with it. These days it still hangs on the back wall of his garage, but there's a dead '75 Olds wagon backed up to the wall right below it with four flat tires that hasn't run in 25 years or more. To get the bike down, the car has to move. The car is blocked in by a slew of old furniture, boxes and stuff he said came from his in-laws place when they passed away years ago.

I wonder if the level or exact model determined what stem a bike got? Maybe just low end versions got the cheaper stems or was it just luck of the draw?