Bike, Collectors, Investors and Hoarders

[Handle Bar Hoarder]

 

[Dra]

I saw people if you can call them people back in the 80’s at auctions buy crate and store (mini warehouse) motorcycles and later see the bike sell for twice the price. Easy to store many. This people were wall street investors at the time. Tax easy. There’s not jack anyone can do. So disappointing. Maybe that’s the reason why kids have no interest in so many of our hobbies

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

Hello all cyclists, restorers, refurbishers, repairers, customizers, collectors, hobbyists, investors, hoarders, conservators, etc.

I find that I fall into all of the above descriptors and not just a single one.

Least of all I am a restorer since I prefer a bike kept as original as possible within reason. Poor original paint is much more exciting to me than a gleaming new paint job. After hundreds of bikes passing through my hands, I believe that I have yet to restore one of them; even the very few that appear to be 100% perfect.

I am foremost a cyclist since I have ridden whatever I could ride, at any age, to satisfy a particular need; be it recreational, competition, commuting, commercial or personal on dirt, grass, pavement, and/or ice for trips from 1 mile to over a 1000 miles. Cycling was and still is freedom for me and one of my greatest guiltless pleasures. I have had a bike (road) with me nearly 100% of time when possible since I was in my 20s, and that allowed me to explore the world and meet more people in a way that was impossible by most other means. If I did not have a bike to ride I would find one and fix it; e.g. I worked out of town, found a $15 girl's mtb at a thrift shop and rebuilt it for 2 months use. Returned and donated the same and now fully functional bike to the same thrift shop weeks later and told them they could now sell the bike for a lot more if they desired.

Next I am most regularly a repairer; having started by fixing (with my dad) my old kid's bikes, and then my own personally purchased bikes. I have only used a service shop 10 ten times in my life (riding over 50 years); 4 of those experiences were negative and caused me to learn more and of course acquire more tools. Greatest joy comes from fixing and providing another individual with a safe, comfortable, and enjoyable bike to ride.

Next would be conservator. I find it interesting to have a bike (or part) that no one seems to have much information about and it seems has never been of any particular interest. Often the bike has no extreme intrinsic value or particular features that make it any different from most other bikes other than its general or specific history. Because of this interest my curiosity has enabled me to converse and correspond with folks from around the world (like on this site!). This happens much more frequently with European bikes due to the multitude of small volume local bike builders. I have gotten to know many cyclists and have been able to profit from their knowledge, some actually helping with procurement of parts and bikes which I would never find locally, or be able to afford if buying online.

Hoarder comes next, but not for the reasons one might assume. My bikes and parts are not thrown into a heap and allowed to deteriorate; they are, however, cataloged, labelled, and properly stored to avoid deterioration/damage. I amassed parts and frames early on and assumed prices for early road bikes would be increasing in 5 to 10 years; nevermind in 20 plus years (been actively rebuilding bikes for 30 yrs) so I bought more parts than needed at the time, and I now avoid paying the higher (often inflated) prices (10%-50% increase) for those same parts; nevermind the increased costs for shipping and taxes. It also allows me to sell inventory to find better or more appropriate and expensive parts without feeling the financial affect due to the higher resale cost of my earlier purchases. This has also allowed me to sell at lower prices and still be able to profit myself while still providing a reasonable cost to buyers.
To me true hoarding is merely the repetitive accumulation of something with no end goal in sight other than to add another item; especially if what you are amassing does not actually provide any real enjoyment, and only provides the continued complusion to add the next item.

I am certainly an investor since one retirement goal was to be able to have my prior and present interests provide a means (albeit limited) of support for me while not receiving a standard flow of revenue income. I know that even with the selling of my parts and bikes at lower than present market values; I will still be able to subsist for years on that income. That being said, I only have 2 "investment" bikes I have never ridden (I essentially have duplicate copies of them to ride) be they 1 or 100 years old. Again, the joy of riding trumps having a bike sitting idle just gathering dust.

Although I have customized a couple bikes it has never involved frame or fork alteration other than minor "cold-setting" of the rear fork. My customizations are merely dreams I've put on paper without expectations of them becoming reality.
I merely fit parts that I feel are appropriate to the use of the bike, or provide a better period correct bike but with upgraded performamce.

I do believe, in general, that parts/bikes should not be wall art. Most of the beauty comes from the seeing and hearing the flawless (I hope!) operation of a bike, and feeling the knowledge that you are enjoying the same freedom of spirit that the very first user experienced on that same bike; as well as being able to provide that same joy to a future owner. I also have bikes willed for the return to the original shop since they no longer have a representative example of their own product.

I always provide a perspective buyer with as much provenance and history I know, but I also try to test their knowledge and "biking background" which often kills a sale since it becomes clear that a frame will be stripped of parts and just sold for "flipping" value. I may not know what you will do with the bike, but if you tell me it may be the last time we have a conversation pertaining to the purchase. If you want to melt it down for scrap then just keep it to yourself and I'll be none the wiser.

If one good thing came from COVID, it would be the revitalized interest in cycling amoung the general public. Many of whom bought a brand new department store or online bike, others purchasing bike shop brands, some who decided to buy an older used bike, as well as those who dusted off the old garage bike. Unfortunately, I believe that there will glut of those same bikes (many probably barely ridden whether bought new or used) hitting the resale market (probably happening already) in the coming months and years. It will be interesting to see what affect it has on the classic bike market since in many cases people were paying premium prices in some locations for bikes that usually would sell for much less, but due to the lack of the availability of new or newer used bikes allowed for a slight boom in the vintage bike market. Also, the vintage bike market might get a boost in inventory due to people selling their "antique" for a modern ride, or those realizing that they are never going to ride their old bike (or any bike) again; and are now wanting to just clear out the "junk".

You embosy the best qualities of the categories I listed, as well as a category or two I did not. Thank you for your post, it was a very interesting take on what I discussed. You are a person who moderates all of the best qualities of aspects of this or any hobby that too often get trampled in the rush to have it all, or make more money all the time without concern for the hobby or others or amass a huge collection no one else could ever have a chance to enjoy.
Thanks for your involvement in this lifestyle.
Rob

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

I saw people if you can call them people back in the 80’s at auctions buy crate and store (mini warehouse) motorcycles and later see the bike sell for twice the price. Easy to store many. This people were wall street investors at the time. Tax easy. There’s not jack anyone can do. So disappointing. Maybe that’s the reason why kids have no interest in so many of our hobbies

My point in a nutshell. Thank you.
Rob

 

[Freqman1]

I tend to be a glass half full type of guy and every time I see a post that talks about the demise of the hobby or what's ruining it I just shake my head. Come to Memory Lane and Monroe at the end of the month and tell me how you think the hobby is doing!

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

I tend to be a glass half full type of guy and every time I see a post that talks about the demise of the hobby or what's ruining it I just shake my head. Come to Memory Lane and Monroe at the end of the month and tell me how you think the hobby is doing!

Thanks for the response and I understand your point man, but didn't mean the hobby is dying. The Mopar muscle car market hasn't died (yet). That happens when the last of the Era of people who originally owned or wanted to own them has passed.

Had the prices not skyrocketed into second mortgage range, or affluent class people investing in them for extra retirement money maybe a new generation of average Joes (or Josies) may have carried the torch so to speak. Two cases in point.
Before anyone makes a rude comment I would like to say yes, I do understand Supply and Demand, Free Market and the theory of Capitalism. I had Economics classes in high school when they still taught that subject. That is why I am so appalled at this not being understood by a good number of members here.

1). A couple in my hometown had a beautiful original 1927 Ford Model T (corrected) convertible. They bought it over half my lifetime ago and rarely took it out. When they did they always had at least one offer to buy but they never felt the money was a good enough profit to sell. About 10 tears ago I saw it for sale at their home, but never saw anyone stop. The price finally got down to $2500 before I never saw it again. They owned it for 40 years and in the end sold it for probably less than they paid for it in the 1980s. Plus they stored it in a climate controlled garage and rarely took it out to enjoy it.

2). The Mopar market went crazy about 25 years ago when some members of my generation got into a position to buy one. Prices went thru the roof and suddenly the market went from finding running cars for $500 to buying rusty hulls that had been stripped bare for $5000. That was great for the sellers, and for a while the average guy was still hanging in there. Soon though it became like horse racing, a sport of Kings.
A few years ago I was looking at a car sellers publication and I saw a listing that made me almost vomit on my waffles.

A seller had a 1972 Dodge DART 4 DOOR with a moderately built up 318, the Torqueflite 904 transmission and the gawdawful 7-1/4 rear end for sale at the princely sum of $18,000 American. When he built it you couldn't buy a 2 door and he wanted a Dart badly so he spent too much on a 4 door car and drove away a happy camper. Then when he tired of it and wanted to sell he saw 2 door Darts bringing $15-20k and thought his was worth that much as well
Everyone I knew made fun of the ad. I felt sorry for him in a way, he was the victim of his own desires for sure, but also of a market driven to unbelievable heights by ever increasing greed.
I don't know if it sold or what he got if it did. But I would bet my best pair of socks it was nowhere near $18,000 American.

Now it is bicycles, older stuff is going down in price. Musclebikes in particular have been making trips to the moon though. An earlier post commented on not being able to afford Musclecars anymore, but bikes for now are still reasonable in comparison. Those days are going away soon. I am happy for all you guys who can afford a stable of awesome Krates, Super Deluxe Stingrays and other almost unobtainable bikes like almost NOS Sears Screamer 5 speeds or Huffy Rail 5 speed bikes.

Here is a deal you should not pass on since some of you think the current market is fair and affordable

But since not all of us can afford to pay $4000 to buy a pair of wheels to make our 1972 Disc Brake Krate roll again we can sit and look at our frames, repro forks and seats and dream.

Once again, sport of Kings.

At that rate it will cost $10,000 American for a disc brake Krate soon. I looked on the Bay, I couldn't find a real Krate for sale with a disc brake at all and that is a rare thing. At the price of these wheels I am sure they are getting parted out since that is more profitable. Paying $10k for a child's bike that originally sold new for $120.00 is rather exorbitant in my mind.

I yield the floor to my illustrious club members.

 

[HEMI426]

I'm not usually one to correct something in a thread but a 1927 Ford is a Model T, Model A's were 1928 - 31.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

You are right, I have a '27 T truck cab I have been meaning to build a street rod with for 10 years. I have most of what I need but metal skyrocketed so I am waiting on building the frame now.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

I'm not usually one to correct something in a thread but a 1927 Ford is a Model T, Model A's were 1928 - 31.

I corrected it, and marked it corrected. Thanks man for not beating me up for my error.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

Here is an example of what I am talking about on parts and bikes. I know it will make someone mad, but it doesn't make me want to cheer and do backflips so here goes nothing-again.

The tire below was sold here at a very fair price a few days ago. This does not reflect badly on the seller.
I cannot verify this but examining the two photos below, it would be hard to find 2 tires with identical cracking on the same letter.

Check the prices on this item.

Compared to this one

One of those deals I and probably a couple others missed by a minute or two.
Now someone can pay 4x as much plus shipping if they want it bad enough.

Like I said, I will probably get flak on this but I really don't care at this point.
If someone did this on concert tickets it would be called scalping and a crime. In the hobby world it is just business as usual.
Rob