When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Unusual "made in usa" hub on a 1962 American

-
Why would you assume they would have used a 5/16 by 24 thread? They used a 26th on their cranks, not the normal 24th as found on other American build brands. They used unique tire sizes, etc. The Schwinn position was by using a finer thread pitch, it allowed for a finer bearing adjustment.

Showing a photo with an early dated Union made axle does not date the hub in question. Over the years Schwinn sold million's of replacement axle sets to dealerships that were used to sell over the parts counter and used in the service departments to repair their bicycles. The availability of any Schwinn service part needed was one of the Schwinn selling points. I'm NOT saying that the pictured axle was not original to your hub, there's just no way for us to know for sure today that the two parts were born together.

I have not ever read, heard, or seen documentation that Union built a Schwinn Deluxe hub.

If they did great. I'm just not yet convinced.

John
I definitely agree with the part about Schwinn shopping for different parts to save money. Schwinn also definitely wanted you(the customer) to have to come back to them for parts, which is why they had proprietary size tires made for them(by other companies). I agree with the logic of them wanting a front axle thread different than other makers for that same reason. My thoughts on the metric threaded axles/cones are that they don't make sense for an American company to make metric products at that time when everything else here was SAE(not implying 24 or 26tpi). The times we live in now is an entirely different story. It's still a mystery to me who made Schwinn's fore-wheel drum hubs too. They were a metric 9mm axle and odd size race different from their regular low flange counterparts. It's just the simplest explanation since Union's axle threads are the same as the Schwinn hubs and they are likely the makers. I have some 70s hubs stamped "Schwinn Approved Model 200 Made in Germany", they have Union Stamped dated axles. You're right about the possibility of an axle having been replaced after so many years of use....BUT
Replacement Schwinn axles were not dated. Replacement union axles I have found did not say Schwinn Approved. This 61 hub has 3 unique attributes, I'm not sure how else to explain that, other than it being the original axle to the hub, or someone putting it there just to screw with us, but which one is more likely?

Please, I'd like for anyone to offer their original examples up, or documents to prove my theory wrong or right. I went through about 4 Schwinn Reporters from 58 and 60(all I have close in months and years) and didn't see a mention of why hubs were marked "Approved."

Another side note, Schwinn did not document their change in banana seat pans in 1967 or 1970, but it's these little details that matter to folks trying to do a correct replacement or restoration. To Schwinn they were just another unit to bolt on and send the product out the door.
 
I've rebuilt several of the Schwinn script "Approved" front hubs over the past few years. They look very much like the Schwinn ones, but have "Approved" in block letters added to the shell. They had "U" stamped axles. I pirated cones from one to use on an older, Schwinn-built front hub. They also can be converted to take modern, Taiwanese bearing and axle sets if you open the dust cap opening up a bit. It's a cheaper option than springing for original parts for an "Approved" stamped hub. I found the cones on the Union-made ones a little softer than the Schwinn-made ones. Union made cost-effective, decent quality parts in those days.
 
Last edited:
Schwinn built their hubs and axles. They made their bearings and races also. Over their existence they made many of the main parts on their bikes. There was an article at the time when they started making ball bearings and I should have archived it.

These don't include all the hubs and parts they made for the Paramount.

Schwinn-Built


1948_schwinn_3.jpg



1948_schwinn_10.jpg

Schwinn-Built
1948_schwinn_11.jpg

1948_schwinn_12.jpg
 
I definitely agree with the part about Schwinn shopping for different parts to save money. Schwinn also definitely wanted you(the customer) to have to come back to them for parts, which is why they had proprietary size tires made for them(by other companies). I agree with the logic of them wanting a front axle thread different than other makers for that same reason. My thoughts on the metric threaded axles/cones are that they don't make sense for an American company to make metric products at that time when everything else here was SAE(not implying 24 or 26tpi). The times we live in now is an entirely different story. It's still a mystery to me who made Schwinn's fore-wheel drum hubs too. They were a metric 9mm axle and odd size race different from their regular low flange counterparts. It's just the simplest explanation since Union's axle threads are the same as the Schwinn hubs and they are likely the makers. I have some 70s hubs stamped "Schwinn Approved Model 200 Made in Germany", they have Union Stamped dated axles. You're right about the possibility of an axle having been replaced after so many years of use....BUT
Replacement Schwinn axles were not dated. Replacement union axles I have found did not say Schwinn Approved. This 61 hub has 3 unique attributes, I'm not sure how else to explain that, other than it being the original axle to the hub, or someone putting it there just to screw with us, but which one is more likely?

Please, I'd like for anyone to offer their original examples up, or documents to prove my theory wrong or right. I went through about 4 Schwinn Reporters from 58 and 60(all I have close in months and years) and didn't see a mention of why hubs were marked "Approved."

Another side note, Schwinn did not document their change in banana seat pans in 1967 or 1970, but it's these little details that matter to folks trying to do a correct replacement or restoration. To Schwinn they were just another unit to bolt on and send the product out the door.

I have worked as a distribution representative for several different manufacturer's during my working career. They all made running changes on the products they produced during the production year. The reasons were varied. Sometimes it was caused by component shortages and the need to keep production going. Other times it was that something newer/better/faster/cheaper/tricker/nicer looking became available, and they were able to update their current product to the newest version in a timely manner. There was not a good reason to hold off until the annual model change just to be in line with the printed consumer catalogs. If you collect Schwinn consumer catalog's you will already know some model years have "more than one printing" to try and keep up with these running model changes, color changes. and newer model additions. For example, if Persons-Majestic had a newer, swoopy Banana seat model, and it was available in your next factory shipment, why not change to the newest version? For today's collector, it's a hard challenge to figure out which version was appropriate for the frame production date.

The manufactures normally do not announce these running changes, from their perspective there's really nothing to gain, they make the change and keep rolling. No manufacturing decision was ever made with the thought that they would need to explain "the why" reason they made the change to someone today 60 years later. They did not think it was a big deal at the time, it was just the right thing to do at the time, and they needed to respond.

Obviously, we now have 60 years of hindsight, so "we collectors" have a different viewpoint, than the factory did in 1961. If you're coming from the Pebble Beach Concours point of view, then it's very important to display your concours restoration with the correct blue or yellow valve caps to denote your bicycle had the optional factory installed thorn resistant tubes installed to match the factory build sheet. If your bike has the black valve caps, it's points off. This is how you earn the 100 point Concours Awards.

But it was not why they had different parts, with different manufacturing date codes. The date codes were something added so they could tell when a part was actually manufactured in case of a safety recall ever became necessary. I never thought I would have lived long enough to see a Schwinn Scrambler Frame made into a wall lamp and sold as ARTWORK. Or people arguing about what's the correct style brake lever on a Varsity restoration. But this is where we are at today. If you need to have the right axle date stamp on the INSIDE of a front hub to enter your bike at a Concours bike show, I say great. There's lots of different versions to this hobby we call vintage bicycles. The Concours guys have every right to enjoy the number crunching journey of trying to unravel the parts sourcing issues that were done 60 years ago. I do see that it's a fun thing to talk about, but it doesn't make the restored bikes any more fun to ride, IMO.

John
 
I've rebuilt several of the Schwinn script "Approved" front hubs over the past few years. They look very much like the Schwinn ones, but have "Approved" in block letters added to the shell. They had "U" stamped axles. I pirated cones from one to use on an older, Schwinn-built front hub. They also can be converted to take modern, Taiwanese bearing and axle sets if you open the dust cap opening up a bit. It's a cheaper option than springing for original parts for an "Approved" stamped hub. I found the cones on the Union-made ones a little softer than the Schwinn-made ones. Union made cost-effective, decent quality parts in those days.
I'm sure you already know that the welded (from two stampings) Deluxe style hubs use #7 bearings and the three piece Union hubs use #5 bearings. Not sure converting the bearings and cones inside the hardened (replaceable) bearing cups is a good idea between the two different hubs.

Also, the reason the logo stamping is located around the middle of the hub is to hide the electro weld joint and they sometimes "undercut" the weld, so the logo helps hide the cut. The one-piece shell is really two parts welded, ground, tumbled in a huge drum with what looks like two-inch diameter rocks for surface deburring and polishing before it goes over to chrome plating.

John
 
That cone looks like it has some cavities starting?

John

That's why it's still in the cabinet. 😉

So, all this pretty much answers my question I asked when I posted that other thread in Dec. 2016. The Schwinn Approved script hub was not used on the 62 American simply because it was not American made. Up until that point the Americans were equipped with that script front hub along with the Speedster while the American name was on a temporary legal leave of absence from 1959 thru the first half of 1961. Since many of these have shown up with Union guts, Not Wald, I'll have to believe that Union started making these hubs when Schwinn stopped producing them.

I'm with @WillWork4Parts on when the Schwinn Approved era began to be a big thing. That's when the Mesinger seats showed up with the Schwinn approved tag over the top of the Mesinger name among other things.
 
Last edited:
That's why it's still in the cabinet. 😉

So, all this pretty much answers my question I asked when I posted that other thread in Dec. 2016. The Schwinn Approved script hub was not used on the 62 American simply because it was not American made. Up until that point the Americans were equipped with that script front hub along with the Speedster while the American name was on a temporary legal leave of absence from 1959 thru the first half of 1961. Since many these have shown up with Union guts, Not Wald, I'll have to believe that Union started making these hubs when Schwinn stopped producing them.

I'm with @WillWork4Parts on when the Schwinn Approved era began to be a big thing. That's when the Mesinger seats showed up with the Schwinn approved tag over the top of the Mesinger name among other things.
Yes and no. Yes, they changed the sourcing because of the FTC legalities. No, because I'm not certain as to the years when this all happened, but I will take your word for it. No, we never talked about Wald, it was a Schwinn parts source change to Excell made hubs marked Made in USA. The Excell hubs (I believe?) used the American standard 5/16" by 24T axles (the same size and thread as Wald used), but they were not Wald manufactured hubs. I have not yet seen documented proof that Union made the Schwinn Deluxe hubs, as you claim. I think too much is being read into the APPROVED logo change. I could be wrong, just not ready to change my opinion yet, and you need more and better documentation to win me over, LOL.

John
 
Yes and no. Yes, they changed the sourcing because of the FTC legalities. No, because I'm not certain as to the years when this all happened, but I will take your word for it. No, we never talked about Wald, it was a Schwinn parts source change to Excell made hubs marked Made in USA. The Excell hubs (I believe?) used the American standard 5/16" by 24T axles (the same size and thread as Wald used), but they were not Wald manufactured hubs. I have not yet seen documented proof that Union made the Schwinn Deluxe hubs, as you claim. I think too much is being read into the APPROVED logo change. I could be wrong, just not ready to change my opinion yet, and you need more and better documentation to win me over, LOL.
I won’t be spreading rumors of who I think made that hub until I find out for sure, but I do believe it was union. Do you happen to know when they opened the plant here in the US and are they still here in the US producing bike parts today?
 
Back
Top