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Bike Geometry and Ride

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I would love to hear what people like @ozzie and @birdzgarage think about the way their amazing bikes ride and why. I only know a few of the really talented bike builders here by username.

@Mr. Monkeyarms has been riding muscle bikes and BMX bikes a lot recently. Maybe he can chime in on how these bikes ride and what he thinks makes them tick.

Being an addict, I may be the wrong person to ask. Just too many ways to have fun in a bike & so many great bikes to have different kinds of fun.🤣🤣 As long as I'm riding a bike I'm a happy guy. Many of my bikes are not set up for efficiency. Form over function. Fortunately my body forms around whatever bike I'm on to make it function!🙂

I also like speed. Especially on 2 wheels!!😍🥰🤩😍 Bikes set up for efficient pedalling(going fast per terrain) I like to have my weight evenly distributed front to rear with a bottom bracket lower than the axles. It makes the bike feel like an extension of the body. Like you're riding IN the bike versus ON the bike. I like steep geometry as well for quick handling. I generally steer from my hips.

It's good to try different bikes for different riding. When you ride one that you KNOW is special, whatever it's purpose, it is a feeling that's hard to beat.
 
The fork on your Snyder bikes looks very similar to the tri-plate fork on my klunker. Glad to see them surviving.
Thx. Got lucky, front end pieced together from this 1940s girls Murray Firestone
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@mrg, you have built many Klunkers and have ridden a ton of vintage bikes on and off road. What bikes have been some of your favorites to ride? Do you have insights on why you liked them?
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Like you're riding IN the bike versus ON the bike.
I generally steer from my hips.
When you ride one that you KNOW is special, whatever it's purpose, it is a feeling that's hard to beat.
Great ways of describing it @Mr. Monkeyarms ! I know just what you mean. I feel like my hips come into play especially when I need to make adjustments when I’m almost on top of an obstacle.
 
How you initiate a turn on a bicycle is dependent to the wheel speed the bicycle is traveling. As previously stated, you can initiate a turn by moving your hips causing the seat, and then the frame to lean and turn. But this only works at lower wheel speeds.

At higher speeds (I'm not talking actual MPH here) the weight of the tires, tubes, wheels begin to cause a centrificul force which make it more difficult to initiate a turn as the wheel speed and weight are increased. You can demonstrate this to yourself by taking a front wheel and spin it as fast as you can and hold each end of the axle with your fingers. It's very difficult to turn the wheel right or left until the rotational speed comes down.

Motorcyclists are trained during their required MSF safety training to understand a very important turning maneuver called COUNTER STEERING. At high or even moderate speed the handlebars will not turn the bicycle/motorcycle. To initiate a turn at high speeds you push the handlebar in the opposite direction to the direction you want to turn. For example, if you want to turn left, you "push forward" of the left handlebar end. It's called COUNTER STEERING because it makes no sense and is counter to what you actually think you should do. The centrifugal force and the push on the handlebars cause the vehicle to lean and begin the turn.

The actual MPH that this becomes important is variable based on the wheel speed, and the weight of the rotating mass. It's the centrifugal force of this weight the causes this to occur. If you have a Mountain Bike, or a Klunker with heavy wheels/tires, and combine that with a high speed you may experience a problem turning at a downhill speed. Using this proven motorcycle method requires nothing to invest in but the experience to know it's now in your bag of riding tools.

John
 
You all counter steer without realizing it. Kicks in to maintain controlled turn. Muscle memory from when you learned to ride, otherwise front wheel knife in. Watch a new rider like kid turning, often will fall into turn, front is knifing in, then quickly learns to counter steer, as sales west described. It's subtle.

A more obvious example is counter steer corrective when rear breaks lose aka drift. Here's repack klunker rear drift and front counter drift steer. If surface is loose, front also breaks lose and drifts. I've found that NOT locking front brakes allows recovery from front drift, need wheel rolling regain traction, locked wheel gives no traction and steering worthless. Like steering car on ice without chains. 👍👍
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My point was more about how to "INITIATE A HIGH SPEED TURN", not so much as how to correct a spin out. You are correct the guy in the photo is using counter steering in an effort to regain control and keep from sliding out.

John
 
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You all counter steer without realizing it. Kicks in to maintain controlled turn. Muscle memory from when you learned to ride, otherwise front wheel knife in. Watch a new rider like kid turning, often will fall into turn, front is knifing in, then quickly learns to counter steer, as sales west described. It's subtle.

A more obvious example is counter steer corrective when rear breaks lose aka drift. Here's repack klunker rear drift and front counter drift steer. If surface is loose, front also breaks lose and drifts. I've found that NOT locking front brakes allows recovery from front drift, need wheel rolling regain traction, locked wheel gives no traction and steering worthless. Like steering car on ice without chains. 👍👍
View attachment 1795674

If you want to see the true masters of steering something on 2 wheels, then watch videos of Speedway Motorcycles!

 
I don't build bikes based on geometry. I'm a collector that rides.its a way to enjoy my parts collection besides just displaying it.to me when dealing with vintage bikes it's trial and error.i don't select frames for their specs.at the speeds they are used at,non of that matters.the only ones the matter as far as handling are the hard tail klunkers or my specialized carbon fiber comp.they are the only bikes ridden at speed.the addition of the suspension fork on the old frames slows the steering as they are longer and relax the steering angle making it steer slower or tracking more stable.longer chainstays make it more stable on steep climbs.shorter,killer wheelies.and of course the frame height should fit the rider.anything beyond that is over thinking it to me when dealing with the bikes I collect.thats just my opinion since you asked.
 
Is geometry really an issue on anything other than high end road bikes?
Even with those the limits to comfort and handling mostly come from a limited range of adjustments. Most middle weight bikes have loads of adjustments.
 
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