Consensus on freeing TOC hubs

[FreedomMachinist]

Yeah, I also just realized that this book is actually not for free
I found the PDF via Google and the domain "ru" points to Russia... Probably not a legal source and I don't want to trigger others to ... However, I cannot edit my post, so @admin: feel free to delete the link.

To your question:
"Does that mean that I’m stuck having to locate the exact same hub in order to render it ridable?"

No, I recommend to setup a complete spare, i.e. leave the sprocket on the OG rear wheel and get another one.
Just measure the thickness you need (and count the number of teeth of course) and buy a replacement. The Victor probably has a thicker Blockchain (inner width 6.35mm (1/4"), where 3/16" (4.75mm) is also a common size.

Just keep your eyes open for used hubs- many times they come with a sprocket mounted - if not get it separately. Check here on The Cabe (DOND and bike parts for sale) and eBay of course.

Coaster Break hubs are quite easy to find and are safer and more comfy to ride than fixed gears. NewDeparture Modell A is a good choice I think, and a quite common upgrade in the teens for TOC fixies. ( I believe they came out around 1903).
Newer ND hubs are easier to get by and since your Victor is older than any coaster brake in the world , I would not worry too much about period correctness
and you only want a wheel set to ride...

One thing which is easy to miss: some older bikes require very wide hubs ! The distance between the chain stays is really far.
It is important to monitor the chainline (chain must run straight from one wheel to another) otherwise the teeth on your chain wheel will wear uneven (thinning out one side).
Of course you can add washers /spacers to make up for the gap- but when using too many washers it looks bad and the torque arm from the coaster beak might not line up with the lower chainstay anymore.

In such cases a fixed hub is easier to accommodate....

And:
Hopefully your chain is still intact (no frozen links etc...).


Once you have sourced your hubs and know your spoke count, you can get rims with same number of holes as the hub.

My suggestion would be Ghisallo Wood rims.
They have a great look, they drill any spoke count you wish and you can order clinchers with enforced rim bed (not visible).

The clincher type gives you a wide selection of tires, you can order both types of 28" rims:
Diameter 622 or 635mm - where the latter closer resembles the US Tube Tires measurement.

They also sell long brass nipples (1,8 and 2mm) nickeled or raw. The downside is, that they are not exactly cheap (1 set app.450€).

If you want to spend less, just buy some steel / alu rims of your choice, black Westwood rims are a good route to go, you can buy new ones or just check ebay etc....

Aluminium:

Felge Ryde Westwood V38 622 x 24C Aluminium 36 Löcher 14G - Schwarz

Felge Ryde Westwood V38 622 x 24C Aluminium 36 Löcher 14G - Schwarz

www.2wheelshop.eu

Steel rims, from Heinz. He is also a keen collector and has good choices of white clincher tires as well

Velo-Classic Shop | Felge 28" x 1 1/2 (635) WESTWOOD Profil, Stahl schwarz lackiert, gold liniert, 36 Loch, 38mm breit, Bohrung 4,5mm | online bestellen

Felge 28

velo-classic.de

Have a great 2023
Regards
Jochen

 

[FreedomMachinist]

By the way: in the US, a better source for repro wood rims is certainly Stutzman ( use Forum search....)

 

[locomotion]

please sell those wheels to me and I will sell you a set of TOC hubs!

 

[Kennewick Man]

Yeah, I also just realized that this book is actually not for free
I found the PDF via Google and the domain "ru" points to Russia... Probably not a legal source and I don't want to trigger others to ... However, I cannot edit my post, so @admin: feel free to delete the link.

To your question:
"Does that mean that I’m stuck having to locate the exact same hub in order to render it ridable?"

No, I recommend to setup a complete spare, i.e. leave the sprocket on the OG rear wheel and get another one.
Just measure the thickness you need (and count the number of teeth of course) and buy a replacement. The Victor probably has a thicker Blockchain (inner width 6.35mm (1/4"), where 3/16" (4.75mm) is also a common size.

Just keep your eyes open for used hubs- many times they come with a sprocket mounted - if not get it separately. Check here on The Cabe (DOND and bike parts for sale) and eBay of course.

Coaster Break hubs are quite easy to find and are safer and more comfy to ride than fixed gears. NewDeparture Modell A is a good choice I think, and a quite common upgrade in the teens for TOC fixies. ( I believe they came out around 1903).
Newer ND hubs are easier to get by and since your Victor is older than any coaster brake in the world , I would not worry too much about period correctness
and you only want a wheel set to ride...

One thing which is easy to miss: some older bikes require very wide hubs ! The distance between the chain stays is really far.
It is important to monitor the chainline (chain must run straight from one wheel to another) otherwise the teeth on your chain wheel will wear uneven (thinning out one side).
Of course you can add washers /spacers to make up for the gap- but when using too many washers it looks bad and the torque arm from the coaster beak might not line up with the lower chainstay anymore.

In such cases a fixed hub is easier to accommodate....

And:
Hopefully your chain is still intact (no frozen links etc...).


Once you have sourced your hubs and know your spoke count, you can get rims with same number of holes as the hub.

My suggestion would be Ghisallo Wood rims.
They have a great look, they drill any spoke count you wish and you can order clinchers with enforced rim bed (not visible).

The clincher type gives you a wide selection of tires, you can order both types of 28" rims:
Diameter 622 or 635mm - where the latter closer resembles the US Tube Tires measurement.

They also sell long brass nipples (1,8 and 2mm) nickeled or raw. The downside is, that they are not exactly cheap (1 set app.450€).

If you want to spend less, just buy some steel / alu rims of your choice, black Westwood rims are a good route to go, you can buy new ones or just check ebay etc....

Aluminium:

Felge Ryde Westwood V38 622 x 24C Aluminium 36 Löcher 14G - Schwarz

Felge Ryde Westwood V38 622 x 24C Aluminium 36 Löcher 14G - Schwarz

www.2wheelshop.eu

Steel rims, from Heinz. He is also a keen collector and has good choices of white clincher tires as well

Velo-Classic Shop | Felge 28" x 1 1/2 (635) WESTWOOD Profil, Stahl schwarz lackiert, gold liniert, 36 Loch, 38mm breit, Bohrung 4,5mm | online bestellen

Felge 28

velo-classic.de

Have a great 2023
Regards
Jochen

Thanks for taking time out to provide a Thor answer to my queries. I’ll definitely pin your response so that I can refer back to it over the coming weeks.
As for replacement wooden rims; I’ve been giving consideration to Ghisallo rims because the process of submitting an order online is much simpler than the process of ordering from Stutzman. I’m sure his work is amazing but it seems a bit to convoluted a process for my liking.

 

[Kennewick Man]

please sell those wheels to me and I will sell you a set of TOC hubs!

In a way, I wish I could pass these wheels on to you but this thread has me convinced that I’d regret it severely.

 

[Rusty McNickel]

A word of caution when sourcing hubs, particularly the rear for rider wheels. Victor seemed to gravitate towards narrower hubs. I have a 96 and 99 both acquired as projects, neither had wheels. But both frames has been modified, and that's an overly generous term, more like butchered to accept a wider rear hub. The 96 came with no hub. The 99 had a ND Mod A mounted. Both frames suffered permanent deformities in the stays due to tweaking.

Miraculously, I've managed to score original hubs and or wheels for these Victors and the degree of modification seen by each frame is pretty staggering.

The 99 Victor catalog boast among improvements, their new larger diameter and narrower hubs, indeed at 89 mm as noted in the photo. Note that the remaining gap in the 99 rear spacing is AFTER the frame was reworked just to get the permanent wrinkles out. I hadn't scored the correct wheels yet but when I did and mounted it my jaw dropped after seeing how much space remained to be taken up.

The 96 hub measures in at a wider 106 mm but it's still not wide enough to fill the gap of the yet to be corrected rear spacing.

The flexibility of the front fork affords a little more wiggle room if the hub is wider.
Not as much with the rear spacing. Just be aware before you purchase and see if the hub you are eyeing is going to require a little or a lot of frame flexing.

99 Victor hub width

99 Victor hub installed after frame was cold set just to remove the bends. Still a ways to go. Note the remaining deformitity of the right seat stay. This frame had a Model A mounted.

96 Victor hub width

96 correct hub installed before any frame corrections and a large gap remaing. Again, a permanently deformed right seat stay.

Just for reference, I measured up two Model A's I dug out and both are about in the same range. They may work with the 96 with minimal flexing but ascertain widths first before your purchase.

 

[Barnegatbicycles]

Do not take apart those wheels! They are in great condition and pulling them apart and "restoring" them would be the worst thing you could do. Original straight pull spokes are not easy to find and I believe you would have to modify the hubs to use new ones which are also going to stick out.