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Help : Road Racing English - what is it

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Boiler

'Lil Knee Scuffer
I have this old bike that I’m thinking is from the 20s or 30s but would like to know maybe the manufacture or any information including value .

Thank you , John

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There were over 400 bike manufacturers in England before WW2.
Considering the parts, Id say late 30s to mid 40s.
The Williams chainring should have a date code on the back.
What saddle is that? Lycett, Wrights? cant see the imprint.

Many Birmingham cues;
  • Phillips #271 fork (Super Club)
  • Walton & Brown fish tail lugs
  • BHC Hubs

Back in those days in England, except for the specialty and high end offerings, parts were sourced as close to the builder as possible. Extra shipping costs for parts raised the price of the bike and there were 400 other builders to compete with.
Notice no mudguard or lighting braze-ons on the fork or seat stays.
I'd guess a time trial club bike from a small Birmingham builder.
 
Aaah, Wrights. another Birmingham company.
If you do find the manufacturer it will most likely be from the seat stay treatment at the seat lug. The flattened ends are probably a tell-tale for the builder.
 
Ding !!! (quite possibly)
Phillips Grande Vitesse frame from the 30's.
Phillips didn't sell entire bikes till the 40's but they sold all the parts to make one yourself and supplied all the builders in England with parts starting in the late 1800's
This frame is on page 37 of the Phillips 1939 catalog.

Probably bought and built up by the owner.
 
Dont see anything around the seat lug or stays , back yard mechanic more than likely ....
 
Thing to do now is disassemble it to the bare frame and weigh it. In the 4 pound range (without fork) is most likely a 531 frame. 5 pound range High manganese steel.
Before 35' the best was Reynolds High Manganese steel. 531 came out in 35' and stopped for bikes in 39' for the war effort till 45'. So there is a possible dating strategy.

These Phillips frames could be ordered with or without braze-ons and all parts included could be swapped with your preference.
 
Chainset may be a later, cheaper copy of a William's original design.
'Nicklin' made copies of the Williams C34 model from the 60's onwards, this may account for the 'N' marking on the non-drive side crank.

'Chater-Lea' dropouts were a high-end choice, I don't think Phillips used them, but not 100% sure.

Interesting markings, it seems to have two frame numbers, and that 'S' may be very significant.
'Stephens' is one manufacturer that comes to mind who built bicycles with 'Chater-Lea' rear dropouts.
I'm intrigued, more digging required.
 
Chainset may be a later, cheaper copy of a William's original design.
'Nicklin' made copies of the Williams C34 model from the 60's onwards, this may account for the 'N' marking on the non-drive side crank.

'Chater-Lea' dropouts were a high-end choice, I don't think Phillips used them, but not 100% sure.

Interesting markings, it seems to have two frame numbers, and that 'S' may be very significant.
'Stephens' is one manufacturer that comes to mind who built bicycles with 'Chater-Lea' rear dropouts.
I'm intrigued, more digging required.
Oooh nice.
Going to look up Stephens now.
Of course it could have been changed, but a Nicklin crank and CL dropouts don't seem to go together.

That grande vitesse frame seems to be Philips totl offering. I wonder if companies bought whole assembled frames then built them from there as their own. My guess would be more than likely.
Interested to know what the weight is.
 
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