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Can you tell me the year of this Hiawatha/Gambles?

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Thank you for shedding some light on this! Proprietary coding would explain most of the confusion over the '60-'64 period. I'm thinking Western Flyers of that era were as well, with only an 'X' as a clue. We've been relying on the chart from ABC Service's reprint of a 1959 Western Auto parts manual for their Murray chart (below). One detail I've noticed is that most JC Higgins are stamped 'MOS-', and then the year letter, as opposed to other Murray built bikes being 'MO-'.

View attachment 1797877
You are most welcome.

You did not state the tire/wheel size. These came in 24-inch and 26-inch versions. And there should be no problems exchanging most parts for this Hiawatha "Speed Flite" between 1962 and 1966. As long as you go 26-inch to 26-inch and 24-inch to 24-inch. So why do you say it will not interchange with "1964"??? Let's see this "1964"????? This model was made for a long time with very few changes. Which is why they were able to sell lots of these at such a low price! The little plastic fender rocket ornament was deleted from late models and there were other minor changes along the way. But most parts should interchange– especially between what you believe is 1963 and 1964. Take a clear photo of the stampings on the frame.

Yessss... know all about the chart and where it came from. Had one of these since the 1960s. There were many others and have those too. We have all of the Western Flyer records too. Had them since the 1970s when I actually went to the corporate headquarters in Kansas City, MO and got the records in person. I have personal correspondence with Western Auto regarding Western Flyer bicycles with letters from them to me going back to the 1960s. We also have most of the Western Auto dealer books, internal publications, dealer info and store catalogues for most of the years they were selling bicycles... going back to the 1920s.

Also have a mint condition original Western Flyer X-53 (it was pictured in Cyclist magazine in the 1980s – see NBHAA.com "Historical Articles" section). And other X-53s. Started collecting them in the 1960s. Have a mint condition original Western Flyer Golden Flyer Anniversary Edition (1959) and numerous other Western Flyers.

Somebody in more recent years found this W-A dealer chart ... and it has been Xeroxed and photocopied to infinity. It has been passed to every DIY site online. It is the biggest reason why these bicycles are so very misunderstood and mis-identified. One size (numbering system) does not fit all– even if it seems that way here. And people using this chart to explain everything do not have the internal data charts that Western Auto dealers had and used to translate all this stuff.

But this chart has some mistakes and unfortunately was intended primarily for Mercury and Murray brands, but not any and every bicycle brand built by Murray-Ohio Manufacturing Company. This is a myth. The chart is not for J.C. Higgins... of which M-O Mfg. only made some, not all. Sears had their very own method of numbering and frankly M.O. Mfg. had a different system for Higgins that was separate from direct "Murray" and "Mercury" brands. And even then, DIY serial number folks today do not seem to understand that Model year and year of manufacture are not necessarily one and the same.

This chart is also not directly translatable to Hiawatha– of which M-O Mfg. made some, but obviously not all. Yesss... we also have a large amount of original Hiawatha literature including dealer info, manufacturer's info and store catalogues. Much of the Hiawatha info online that is accurate has been gleaned from NBHAA Detailed Reports made over the years. DIY-ers should please give up on the idea that Murray brand is the same numbering system as Murray-Built private-label bicycles. It doesn't work that way.

This is also why we have people going around referring to Hiawathas built by Shelby Cycle Company as "Shelby Hiawathas"...as if Hiawatha is merely another Shelby bicycle. Ginormous mistake that merely will lead to further confusion on top of confusion.

Finally, I don't agree that it would be a "waste of time and money" to restore what you have. Why do you say that? You have a very easy resto here... and no telling how decent it may still look under that rattle-can paint sprayed on it now.
• Scott Allison is selling the little ornaments NOS and reasonably priced.
• Someone else has made the repop "HIAWATHA" graphic applique for the headlight assembly.
• Someone has made graphic for the rear carrier top.
Everything else looks to be still hanging in. Why try to piece something else together when you have the whole deal here? Yank that basket and go for it...

Here below are samples of the Hiawatha Speed Flite in the original catalogues courtesy of Leon Dixon / National Bicycle History Archive of America (NBHAA.com)

HiawathaSpeedFliteLitLeonDixonWM.jpeg
 
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"WG" or "WG-3" designations on Hiawatha brand bicycles have absolutely no connection to Murray-Ohio or to years. These are Gambles stores prefixes. They relate more directly to model numbers than to serial numbers or specific years. And... these are an area all their own.

And Murray serial numbers are indeed very, very well understood– even if not on this online forum. Most of the guesses and suppositions about these numbers on DIY sites are just plain incorrect. NBHAA has the Gambles bicycle records, although missing a few items. NBHAA also has Murray's serial records and has had them since the 1970s– direct from the company. Yours truly was once a historical consultant for Murray-Ohio. This was decades ago.

Just because Murray made certain brands of bicycles for certain retailers or wholesale/distributors does not mean that the serial numbers on those private-label brands (such as Hiawatha) are using Murray's factory serial numbers as a universal generic. Private-label brands often had their own numbering systems and the two will often not mix at all. Nor will they be generic and comparable to some other private-label brand– even if the same company made them.

As for fresnelling and SAE mold markings on these bicycle reflectors, one cannot use them as a reference for the model year of a vehicle– whether car or bicycle. Bad idea. And I say this as a bonafide actual member of SAE. Markings, for instance on 1961 Mercury Monterey tail lights mean nothing in reference to the model year of the car. Why? Because the tail lights in question were originally made for 1960 Continental Mark V. The tail light assemblies just found a new home on the 1961 Mercury. Yes. This is not the only example. And things got wayyyy more complicated in the bicycle biz... and double the complication today when looking back at bicycles that may or may not have had the reflectors swapped out. Or bicycles that went to market via wholesale/distributors or private-label retailers who could have (and often did) change anything or specify equipment that varied from the factory-installed items.
Okay, I'll just call it a 1963 then.
 
You are most welcome.

You did not state the tire/wheel size. These came in 24-inch and 26-inch versions. And there should be no problems exchanging most parts for this Hiawatha "Speed Flite" between 1962 and 1966. As long as you go 26-inch to 26-inch and 24-inch to 24-inch. So why do you say it will not interchange with "1964"??? Let's see this "1964"????? This model was made for a long time with very few changes. Which is why they were able to sell lots of these at such a low price! The little plastic fender rocket ornament was deleted from late models and there were other minor changes along the way. But most parts should interchange– especially between what you believe is 1963 and 1964. Take a clear photo of the stampings on the frame.

Yessss... know all about the chart and where it came from. Had one of these since the 1960s. There were many others and have those too. We have all of the Western Flyer records too. Had them since the 1970s when I actually went to the corporate headquarters in Kansas City, MO and got the records in person. I have personal correspondence with Western Auto regarding Western Flyer bicycles with letters from them to me going back to the 1960s. We also have most of the Western Auto dealer books, internal publications, dealer info and store catalogues for most of the years they were selling bicycles... going back to the 1920s.

Also have a mint condition original Western Flyer X-53 (it was pictured in Cyclist magazine in the 1980s – see NBHAA.com "Historical Articles" section). And other X-53s. Started collecting them in the 1960s. Have a mint condition original Western Flyer Golden Flyer Anniversary Edition (1959) and numerous other Western Flyers.

Somebody in more recent years found this W-A dealer chart ... and it has been Xeroxed and photocopied to infinity. It has been passed to every DIY site online. It is the biggest reason why these bicycles are so very misunderstood and mis-identified. One size (numbering system) does not fit all– even if it seems that way here. And people using this chart to explain everything do not have the internal data charts that Western Auto dealers had and used to translate all this stuff.

But this chart has some mistakes and unfortunately was intended primarily for Mercury and Murray brands, but not any and every bicycle brand built by Murray-Ohio Manufacturing Company. This is a myth. The chart is not for J.C. Higgins... of which M-O Mfg. only made some, not all. Sears had their very own method of numbering and frankly M.O. Mfg. had a different system for Higgins that was separate from direct "Murray" and "Mercury" brands. And even then, DIY serial number folks today do not seem to understand that Model year and year of manufacture are not necessarily one and the same.

This chart is also not directly translatable to Hiawatha– of which M-O Mfg. made some, but obviously not all. Yesss... we also have a large amount of original Hiawatha literature including dealer info, manufacturer's info and store catalogues. Much of the Hiawatha info online that is accurate has been gleaned from NBHAA Detailed Reports made over the years. DIY-ers should please give up on the idea that Murray brand is the same numbering system as Murray-Built private-label bicycles. It doesn't work that way.

This is also why we have people going around referring to Hiawathas built by Shelby Cycle Company as "Shelby Hiawathas"...as if Hiawatha is merely another Shelby bicycle. Ginormous mistake that merely will lead to further confusion on top of confusion.

Finally, I don't agree that it would be a "waste of time and money" to restore what you have. Why do you say that? You have a very easy resto here... and no telling how decent it may still look under that rattle-can paint sprayed on it now.
• Scott Allison is selling the little ornaments NOS and reasonably priced.
• Someone else has made the repop "HIAWATHA" graphic applique for the headlight assembly.
• Someone has made graphic for the rear carrier top.
Everything else looks to be still hanging in. Why try to piece something else together when you have the whole deal here? Yank that basket and go for it...

Here below are samples of the Hiawatha Speed Flite in the original catalogues courtesy of Leon Dixon / National Bicycle History Archive of America (NBHAA.com)

View attachment 1798566
Thank you for your knowledge and especially the image of the gambles ad! It is a 26" model and the spitting image of the image of the 1963 that is pointed out in the ad. This has become my late winter/ early spring project. The bike has been disassembled, de-greased and the chrome and other plated parts shined as best as they can be. The NOS fender ornament has been purchased, along with the "Hiawatha' decal between the headlamps, new whitewall tires and tube protector bands. You could say that I am cranked up about this project. The frame will be blasted and painted within the next few weeks. I used to be an auto body technician decades ago and painted three bike frames, one for myself and the other two for my brother, all of which came out perfect. Although very elaborate, I am confident that I can replicate the graphics using automotive fine-line masking tape and an airbrush. Yes, it may take me a while for that part of it. By the way do you have a good image of the Hiawatha graphic located on the seat tube? Oh yeah, the tank light plastic piece and lamp reflector bowl will be taken to the plating shop and be re chromed.

It wasn't true when I said this would be a waste of time and money. Yes, the potential resale of the bike will not be worth what I will spend in the refurbishment, but I am doing this for my enjoyment and the "coolness" of riding an old bike. Maybe I am remembering back to the day when as a kid in the late 1960's all the neighborhood rich kids parents bought them Schwinn's from the local dealer and me and my siblings got department store bikes. Whatever, I don't want a Schwinn now anyways. Maybe still having my 1969 J.C. Penney/Foremost "Swinger" 20" five speed would be nice.

The other Gambles Hiawatha bike that I got from my dad that he bought back in the day I was also refurbishing/restoring. It also looks just like the 1966 as pictured in the Gambles ad with exception of having twin tubes for the top tube. I bought the 1963 for the tank missing on it. When I fitted the '63 to the '66, no, kidding, it was about an inch too long to fit into the space. I know in the several years that they built this model they altered them very little, save for the graphics, colors and other minor items such as the saddles and grips. Maybe the difference is the one piece top tube design on the '63 and the twin top tube design on my dad's other. If you want to see it, I have a WTB posting for the tank on this site.

Again, thanks for the information and for setting me just a little more straight on the subject. Your knowledge, and correct knowledge, runs deep and that is what is needed on this forum. Now, if you want to know most anything about a Chevrolet Corvair or a Harley-Davidson Model AH "Topper" you can ask me, a longtime owner of 1964's, one of each.
 
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Thank you for your knowledge and especially the image of the gambles ad! It is a 26" model and the spitting image of the image of the 1963 that is pointed out in the ad. This has become my late winter/ early spring project. The bike has been disassembled, de-greased and the chrome and other plated parts shined as best as they can be. The NOS fender ornament has been purchased, along with the "Hiawatha' decal between the headlamps, new whitewall tires and tube protector bands. You could say that I am cranked up about this project. The frame will be blasted and painted within the next few weeks. I used to be an auto body technician decades ago and painted three bike frames, one for myself and the other two for my brother, all of which came out perfect. Although very elaborate, I am confident that I can replicate the graphics using automotive fine-line masking tape and an airbrush. Yes, it may take me a while for that part of it. By the way do you have a good image of the Hiawatha graphic located on the seat tube? Oh yeah, the tank light plastic piece and lamp reflector bowl will be taken to the plating shop and be re chromed.

It wasn't true when I said this would be a waste of time and money. Yes, the potential resale of the bike will not be worth what I will spend in the refurbishment, but I am doing this for my enjoyment and the "coolness" of riding an old bike. Maybe I am remembering back to the day when as a kid in the late 1960's all the neighborhood rich kids parents bought them Schwinn's from the local dealer and me and my siblings got department store bikes. Whatever, I don't want a Schwinn now anyways. Maybe still having my 1969 J.C. Penney/Foremost "Swinger" 20" five speed would be nice.

The other Gambles Hiawatha bike that I got from my dad that he bought back in the day I was also refurbishing/restoring. It also looks just like the 1966 as pictured in the Gambles ad with exception of having twin tubes for the top tube. I bought the 1963 for the tank missing on it. When I fitted the '63 to the '66, no, kidding, it was about an inch too long to fit into the space. I know in the several years that they built this model they altered them very little, save for the graphics, colors and other minor items such as the saddles and grips. Maybe the difference is the one piece top tube design on the '63 and the twin top tube design on my dad's other. If you want to see it, I have a WTB posting for the tank on this site.

Again, thanks for the information and for setting me just a little more straight on the subject. Your knowledge, and correct knowledge, runs deep and that is what is needed on this forum. Now, if you want to know most anything about a Chevrolet Corvair or a Harley-Davidson Model AH "Topper" you can ask me, a longtime owner of 1964's, one of each.
You are most welcome.

Since I have not seen photos of the other Hiawatha you describe, I can't comment. I also can't go to links. You would need to either post here or send direct to me, then I can see whatever it is you are describing. Show me... then I can tell you more. But gotta see it.

And remember there were numerous models of Hiawatha each year, not just one. So just because frames differ does not mean this jumps the year. Also remember that there were numerous retailers that sold Hiawatha, not just one as some believe. And there were also promotional sale models of Hiawatha. So, unlike hobby DIY experts will tell you today... a Murray-made Hiawatha is not merely a translated Murray brand bicycle in different graphics. Lots of differences big and small. And then, lots of years on top of that.

RE: Hiawatha middleweight graphics... Don't be too fast on trying to replicate on your own. Some of these new-age graphics guys have gone bonkers making stencils, decals and appliques– even when they don't know what they go to. Or only think they do. So what you need may already exist. Check around... and don't expect the sellers to know model names and years. They usually don't.

RE: Corvairs and Harleys... Had both but sold them decades and decades ago. Had a girlfriend once who had a Corvair convertible and then I bought myself a Corvair Corsa convertible. Had lots of very rare stuff on it, including very rare real Dayton wire wheels (even experts don't seem to know this was a factory option once). I saved some of my brochures and factory 8 x 10 glossy photos. Presently working on a big history of Corvair-based concept cars. So I know a bit. But thanks.
 
Will do. I can send you some pics of the other bike and even better and more detailed ones of the one mentioned in this post, along with the numbers. My '64 is a Monza 110 PG convertible. Not really special, they did make over 17,000, but nice and in stock unmolested condition. Thanks again.
 
Was the other bike in the link below?
That is the other bike. The post was from May 24th, 2020. I can send get a side by sde comparison of the two frames but my camera is not available right now.
 
Was the other bike in the link below?
Here are pics of my two bike frames. On the single top tube frame the tank fits as it should. On the twin top tubes frame, that tank is too long ( 1'" or so) to fit into the place it should go. Apparently these men's frames are two different models of Hiawatha 26" bikes. The single top tube is on the left side in the first three pics and in the last pic.

100_3848.JPG


100_3849.JPG


100_3851.JPG


100_3852.JPG


100_3853.JPG
 
Two things you'll want to do:
1.) Yank that non-M-O seatpost stem out of the seatpost tube
2.) Take clear photos of the stampings on the axle slot ears.
 
As indicated earlier, one has the three bar cantilever frame; and the other a double twin tube frame.

I’ve never tried to interchange tanks.

Some of the earlier models had chrome tanks with so-called ‘bug-eye’ lights.
 
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