Schwinn Paramount : how old ?

[Schwinn Sales West]

Schwinn Sales West mentioned the 1963 Nationals so I am posting a picture of the program as well as a Wastyn ad from inside the program. Schwinn Sales West if you do not have the program among your mementoes it would be my pleasure to send it to you, pm me if you wish.
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Just wanted to make a public Thank You to Schwinnderell for sending me this 1963 racing program. It was well packed and arrived promptly in like new condition.

This race program brings back many great memories. People I raced, rode, and worked with for the next 35 years.

Thank you

John Palmer

 

[Newbee]

Would it be accurate to believe the Wastyn’s may have built the frame of my 38-39 Schwinn superior track bike ? Would both the 38-39 Paramounts and Superior share the same bottom bracket or axle as the catalog calls it ?
Any info is appreciated

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

Would it be accurate to believe the Wastyn’s may have built the frame of my 38-39 Schwinn superior track bike ? Would both the 38-39 Paramounts and Superior share the same bottom bracket or axle as the catalog calls it ?
Any info is appreciated

View attachment 1808155

I believe they listed both Paramount, and Superior crank sets. I'm not certain, it was a cosmetic, or a different fit thing. There might have been more Superiors back in the day because of the lower price, but today you see more Paramount's were saved from the crusher. I know the headset is different on a Superior, it did not have the floating head cup.

Nice Bike,
John

 

[Schwinny]

I really like the early Schwinn Paramounts. I don't own, one but there are two hanging in the rafters of a small town Iowa bike shop that I like to go look at occasionally. Maybe someday.
Something I've noticed is that many of the early ones, Wastyns perhaps, used BB shells that were made in England. It's cast right into them.
Similarly, these early lugs that we're calling keyhole lugs are called fishtail lugs in England and were from the same time period, 20s through the 40s. The patent on the fishtail lugs was held by Walton & Brown. They were out of business by the 50s. Part of the consolidation. The bike head pictured is a 30's model and uses W&B lugs and headset. The bottom head race is stamped Walton and Brown - Made in England.

I wonder if Wastyns were using W&B bits to start with. We all know that the lightweight style bike migrated here from England. Schwinn itself was using the 597 rim and continued to long after the English companies gave them up. The 597 was the standard English size until the 50s/60s.
The window fork lugs were in the Phillips Catalogs on their better forks and widely used through the 30s.
Also, considering a few Ive seen using a head clip style steerer which is an English thing.

Sorry the Walton & Brown Advertisement is a low quality picture. I grabbed it off UK ebay. I didn't find this particular one in the VCC library.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

I really like the early Schwinn Paramounts. I don't own, one but there are two hanging in the rafters of a small town Iowa bike shop that I like to go look at occasionally. Maybe someday.
Something I've noticed is that many of the early ones, Wastyns perhaps, used BB shells that were made in England. It's cast right into them.
Similarly, these early lugs that we're calling keyhole lugs are called fishtail lugs in England and were from the same time period, 20s through the 40s. The patent on the fishtail lugs was held by Walton & Brown. They were out of business by the 50s. Part of the consolidation. The bike head pictured is a 30's model and uses W&B lugs and headset. The bottom head race is stamped Walton and Brown - Made in England.

I wonder if Wastyns were using W&B bits to start with. We all know that the lightweight style bike migrated here from England. Schwinn itself was using the 597 rim and continued to long after the English companies gave them up. The 597 was the standard English size until the 50s/60s.
The window fork lugs were in the Phillips Catalogs on their better forks and widely used through the 30s.
Also, considering a few Ive seen using a head clip style steerer which is an English thing.

Sorry the Walton & Brown Advertisement is a low quality picture. I grabbed it off UK ebay. I didn't find this particular one in the VCC library.



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I'm sure the lugs were imported. Another English mark is they liked doing the oil cap thing. I think we already agreed that the Paramount cranks and sprockets were from England. Oscar took the basic lug and did some custom filing.

By the 1950's they used Nervex lugs. They were pressed in two halves and welded together.

In the 1980's "Investment Casting" (like rings are made) was used to cast the lugs in one piece, and the raw finish was much nicer requiring less hand finishing before they were silver soldered into the frame.

The lug style changed over the years, and the lug style helps date the frameset. Not better or worse, just different style.

John

 

[Schwinny]

I'm sure the lugs were imported. Another English mark is they liked doing the oil cap thing. I think we already agreed that the Paramount cranks and sprockets were from England. Oscar took the basic lug and did some custom filing.

By the 1950's they used Nervex lugs. They were pressed in two halves and welded together.

In the 1980's "Investment Casting" (like rings are made) was used to cast the lugs in one piece, and the raw finish was much nicer requiring less hand finishing before they were silver soldered into the frame.

The lug style changed over the years, and the lug style helps date the frameset. Not better or worse, just different style.

John

They were real proud of the external greasing and oiling caps, or "partridges." I've got an English handmade bike with one at every bearing. Two at the head, two at the BB and of course each hub.
Tecalemut greasers and pin oilers we're part of a bike kit. Stands to reason. A lot of moisture and rust there.
Funny though that most dump into a void and you'd have to lean the bike or even turn it upside down to get the applied grease or oil to move in the right direction.
Aaaand most I've seen were never used, except maybe on the Sturmey hubs. Folks have over filled those forever.

 

[ccdc.1]

Would it be accurate to believe the Wastyn’s may have built the frame of my 38-39 Schwinn superior track bike ? Would both the 38-39 Paramounts and Superior share the same bottom bracket or axle as the catalog calls it ?
Any info is appreciated

View attachment 1808155

The bottom bracket and axle/spindle is the same for the Paramount and Superior track models, but the cranks are different between track models (and also the cranks on Tourist models are different from the track models, both in design and pedal hole size). Also, the Tourist models had a longer axle/spindle for clearance for the chainguard. And lastly, the Superior track crank and the early Continental cranks look similar, but again the Continental has extra clearance for the chain guard. Every true first generation Superior track crank I have seen is actually stamped with 'Superior' on the inside of the arms.

 

[Newbee]

WoW ok,
I just acquired an axle/spindle that looks correct but have nothing to compare it to.
Would you know the lengths and or would you know of any correct crank arms for sale ?

 

[ccdc.1]

WoW ok,
I just acquired an axle/spindle that looks correct but have nothing to compare it to.
Would you know the lengths and or would you know of any correct crank arms for sale ?

Track spindle is 122mm total length while Tourist spindle is 127mm. There are also tandem spindles that look similar, but are over 130mm long.

 

[Newbee]

Whoo hoo
Thank you !!!!