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Sturmey AW
- Thread starter Ross
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3-speeder
Wore out three sets of tires already!
Does the cable need adjusting? That problem can happen when the cable is too tight or has too much friction when shifting. Sheldon Brown's website has good information here:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/adj.html
Love me some SA A-dubbs.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/adj.html
Love me some SA A-dubbs.
bikemonkey
I live for the CABE
It could also just be you are experiencing an inherent design flaw in AW hubs as addressed in an article by Jobst Brandt. I try to never torque these hubs in high gear (especially standing up) because if it slips you may join the Over the Bars Club...
3-speeder
Wore out three sets of tires already!
Interesting article. I'd like to add that as a pleasure rider I never really use the higher gear. Most of my riding is in the normal or 2nd gear position, and low gear when going uphill.
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SirMike1983
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
I agree with Sheldon's assessment and with that of John Allen on this point. The main issue with AW hubs jumping into freewheel is mal-adjustment of the cable leading the bicycle to slip into neutral from normal (2d) rather than high (3d). Most riders of old 3-speeds are hobbyists who are just riding around for fun and not exerting the kinds of forces needed to thrash the clutch into neutral from H.
When you have a hub that is slipping, you clean, lube and adjust first. Blow any old grease or gunk out of the hub with an inundation of WD-40 or similar. Provide fresh, 20-weight oil in the port, and then double check your cone and shifter cable adjustments. (A more advanced version of this involves greasing the newly cleaned outer cones and bearings, but that's an aside). If the hub slips from H to neutral, the cable is too tight usually; if from N to neutral it's too loose.
The AW's "neutral" comes as the product of cost savings in production. When you build a hub like the old AW, you need some way to prevent the simultaneous engagement of two gears at once (which would damage the hub). The AW forces the hub into one gear or the other when you are "in between L and N".
But when you go to solve the "two gears at once" problem between N and H, you need to decide how you want to do that. How much do you want to spend on assembly and production of each hub? How tight do tolerances need to be? The model K hub was in this regard superior to the AW in that the K used a ramped clutch/driver system to force the hub into one gear at a time. But this meant tighter tolerances and assemblies because it's a more complicated system.
The AW solves the issue the cheaper way - leave a gap between engagement of H and N. You can't engage both at once because on the AW, if you are right in between, you end up spinning the clutch in a gap in the hub. This means loose tolerances and cheaper assemblies in production. But the byproduct is you get the false neutral of the AW. The modern "no in-between gear" AW solves this issue by forcing the hub into gear again, but I regard the NIG hub as a later hub and different from the historical AW.
This all assumes you don't have a badly damaged clutch or other engagement surfaces (pinion pins for H gear). If you do a CLA procedure and still have the issue, you may need to tear down the hub and check for engagement.
When you have a hub that is slipping, you clean, lube and adjust first. Blow any old grease or gunk out of the hub with an inundation of WD-40 or similar. Provide fresh, 20-weight oil in the port, and then double check your cone and shifter cable adjustments. (A more advanced version of this involves greasing the newly cleaned outer cones and bearings, but that's an aside). If the hub slips from H to neutral, the cable is too tight usually; if from N to neutral it's too loose.
The AW's "neutral" comes as the product of cost savings in production. When you build a hub like the old AW, you need some way to prevent the simultaneous engagement of two gears at once (which would damage the hub). The AW forces the hub into one gear or the other when you are "in between L and N".
But when you go to solve the "two gears at once" problem between N and H, you need to decide how you want to do that. How much do you want to spend on assembly and production of each hub? How tight do tolerances need to be? The model K hub was in this regard superior to the AW in that the K used a ramped clutch/driver system to force the hub into one gear at a time. But this meant tighter tolerances and assemblies because it's a more complicated system.
The AW solves the issue the cheaper way - leave a gap between engagement of H and N. You can't engage both at once because on the AW, if you are right in between, you end up spinning the clutch in a gap in the hub. This means loose tolerances and cheaper assemblies in production. But the byproduct is you get the false neutral of the AW. The modern "no in-between gear" AW solves this issue by forcing the hub into gear again, but I regard the NIG hub as a later hub and different from the historical AW.
This all assumes you don't have a badly damaged clutch or other engagement surfaces (pinion pins for H gear). If you do a CLA procedure and still have the issue, you may need to tear down the hub and check for engagement.
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Allrounderco
I live for the CABE
I have an AW, and a TCW. Both will slip out of 2 when the cable gets loose. In the case of the camelback Speedster with the TCW, this happens if I put the bike on my Saris bones rack in 1st, as the cable gets stretched by the rack. The '55 'Vette only goes out if I adjust the rear wheel. In any case, I've gotten pretty efficient at adjusting per Sheldon's method. I don't like this aspect of the Sturmey at all, but I do ride my bikes (yes, I stand on every ride), and don't live in fear of it. Maybe I should, but I don't.
SKPC
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
I have many miles on sturmey archers, and have been bloodied a few times. Learning this lesson was a hard one to say the least. This dis-engaging from 3rd gear in the ANY of the old Sturmey 3-spd coaster brake hubs is due to a design flaw, which renders these hubs worthless for any riding other than short, easy-effort stuff. Even if you replace the drive clutch AND the pawl/drive pins, it (4-arm drive clutch) will "creep" outboard OFF the drive pins against the spring tension under load until it slips completely off.
Your only choice if you run these hubs AND pedal hard is to stop pedaling every 20 or so revolutions, which allows the spring tension to push the drive clutch back into a seated position. I don't think this is the case with the NON coaster sturmeys. Once I discovered the superior Sachs Dreigang 3-spd coaster hubs, I abandoned the sturmey brand.
Can you say "Sachs Dreigang"? These hubs cannot be matched in a 3-spd coaster design, even the new 3-spds(nexus/sturmey) don't come close....
.
Your only choice if you run these hubs AND pedal hard is to stop pedaling every 20 or so revolutions, which allows the spring tension to push the drive clutch back into a seated position. I don't think this is the case with the NON coaster sturmeys. Once I discovered the superior Sachs Dreigang 3-spd coaster hubs, I abandoned the sturmey brand.
Can you say "Sachs Dreigang"? These hubs cannot be matched in a 3-spd coaster design, even the new 3-spds(nexus/sturmey) don't come close....
.
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Allrounderco
I live for the CABE
Good to know - thanks!
SKPC
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
You stopped pedaling, and that is why it seemed fine after the slight "tug",. You were not pedaling and the tension spring inside re-seated the drive clutch against the planetary carrier and the drive pins. No adjustment will fix the design flaw..
