1901 Columbia Chainless Hub Help! SOLVED!

[David Larson]

Hey all! Working on the rear hub for my 1901 Columbia Model 74 Chainless. I've got it down to this last main section, but I can't figure out how it comes apart! The two slotted ends of the inner sleeve are threaded onto eachother on the inside of the whole barrel, however you can not unscrew them all the way because the ball bearings will run out of clearance and bottom out on their bearing races. Does the gear come off somehow? It seems that the gear is not a separate piece from the rest of the outer shell. Is it pressed on? This whole bike has required me to make a few special tools for disassembly - but this one is stumping me!

Any help is greatly appreciated - thanks!

 

[David Brown]

I might be wrong here, but i think you have to unscrew the 2 ends with the slots in them till the bearing will drop out of the one side then it will slid out as one piece. I had one of these apart some time ago so really not sure if I am right. Is that the hub with the lever and rod tire brake? I really would not think you have to take the gear off.

 

[David Larson]

I might be wrong here, but i think you have to unscrew the 2 ends with the slots in them till the bearing will drop out of the one side then it will slid out as one piece. I had one of these apart some time ago so really not sure if I am right. Is that the hub with the lever and rod tire brake? I really would not think you have to take the gear off.

Hi David - thanks for the reply!

Screwing the adjusters all the way in to let the ball bearings fall loose would definitely make sense, since that concept is applied to disassembling most of the other bearing assemblies on this bike. However, after screwing the adjusters all the way in and bottoming out their threads, there still is not nearly enough room to get any of the balls out. So... judging by the closed ring steel washer in between the inside edge of the gear and that shouldered area, I think we can assume that the gear and the outer shell are two separate pieces. I used a few special jigs to try to press that gear off, and I gave it a good amount of force. No movement at all.. it does not appear to be threaded on, but I could be wrong.

Finally, I have to decided that my best bet is probably to not disassemble this assembly after all. Instead, I soaked the whole thing in laquer thinner [pictured] and spun the shaft/bearings to clean all the old grease and grime out of the inside. The lacquer thinner did an outstanding job [as evidenced by the brown cloud in the LT in the picture]

Now it spins free and clean and it's ready to be re-greased!

 

[Craig Allen]

I have an engineered drawing of the model 58 chainless hub which is essentially the same as what you are holding but I believe your barrel hub and gear are all one machined piece. The inner sleeves are two separate pieces and are left hand threads in the middle so they should be able to unscrew all the way. They were put in so they have to come out. There are ten 3/16" balls on the inside race on the left side and should be covered by a felt washer. Are you sure all four 7/32" balls have dropped out of the grooves? Also you definitely do not want to use grease on this hub because the braking mechanism will not work. You can only use oil which is what the Columbia catalog recommended.

 

[David Larson]

I have an engineered drawing of the model 58 chainless hub which is essentially the same as what you are holding but I believe your barrel hub and gear are all one machined piece. The inner sleeves are two separate pieces and are left hand threads in the middle so they should be able to unscrew all the way. They were put in so they have to come out. There are ten 3/16" balls on the inside race on the left side and should be covered by a felt washer. Are you sure all four 7/32" balls have dropped out of the grooves? Also you definitely do not want to use grease on this hub because the braking mechanism will not work. You can only use oil which is what the Columbia catalog recommended.

Thank you for the reply!

I guess I assumed that grease was correct because the whole thing was covered with grease inside and out when I initially disassembled it. However, I will definitely be using oil [heavy weight?] If that is what's intended!

As far as the inner sleeve - the four larger balls are definitely out. When I screw the sleeve in on itself, it definitely feels like it's bottoming out. I'm only able to screw it in maybe 4-6 complete revolutions before it feels like it bottoms out. The threads feel very clean up until that point too, so it doesn't feel like there is a blockage on them.

Do you have a scan of the drawing that I can see? There are so few options I have for disassembly here - I'm surprised it's not coming apart.

Maybe there is a blockage on the threads? It gets extremely right and doesn't turn in any further past a certain point though... hmm... It's always something!

 

[David Larson]

I have an engineered drawing of the model 58 chainless hub which is essentially the same as what you are holding but I believe your barrel hub and gear are all one machined piece. The inner sleeves are two separate pieces and are left hand threads in the middle so they should be able to unscrew all the way. They were put in so they have to come out. There are ten 3/16" balls on the inside race on the left side and should be covered by a felt washer. Are you sure all four 7/32" balls have dropped out of the grooves? Also you definitely do not want to use grease on this hub because the braking mechanism will not work. You can only use oil which is what the Columbia catalog recommended.

Also, I will add:

Maybe this model hub is different from yours? The threads on the inner sleeve of mine are not left hand thread. Screw to the right: the pieces move in toward eachother. Screw to the left: they move outward.

My biggest hang-up with the idea that the gear and shell are one piece is this steel washer. The felt washer can stretch, but that steel washer is exactly the correct size for the diameter is fits on [couple thousands larger I suppose.] How could this washer have been put on it if the gear and shell are once solid piece?

 

[David Brown]

I am pretty sure the gear does come off but it will not be easy. It is threaded I would say ,also maybe silver soldered

 

[David Larson]

I am pretty sure the gear does come off but it will not be easy. It is threaded I would say ,also maybe silver soldered

I was going to try removing the last felt washer and heating the gear/shell area with the OA torch. [I can re-harden everything afterwards, not a problem.] This should tell us for certain If the gear and shell are separate piece - there should be a definitive line showing how they are heating up at different rates. This will also reveal if the gear is silver soldered in place as well.

I really would like to get this assembly apart completely, so I think i will give it a shot later. [Unless someone speaks up with a secret of some sort in the meantime!]

 

[David Larson]

Quick update: after removing the felt washer and checking more closely, I found the seam between the gear and the shell! Not located where I initially assumed - the gear has a bit of a machined sleeve extending off of it. I scraped the seam with a razor blade revealing this small gap. So now the question: "is it threaded on or pressed on?"

At this point I'm think it's threaded on. I will heat the piece in a bit and hopefully I can get some results. Thank you all for replies! I'm going to rename this thread slightly so people can find it for reference in the future!

 

[catfish]

Good luck.