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1944 Columbia Compax Military model folding bicycle
- Thread starter 37schwinn
- Start date
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Mercian
I live for the CABE
Hi Albert,
thanks for your picture (and the PM's too). The picture of the unrestore Lady's bike is very useful, though it caused a slight 'oops' moment at first, because it was so out of sequence.
However, I already have an 'after restoration' photo from the person that you (presumably) sold it to.:
which shows the in-sequence K7 that was hidden under the paint. I have never seen the L4 type number before, it could be some other form of stock check, and maybe stamped after it was supplied to the army.
And, yes, I had made an error with the last number of the serial ( 8 instead of 3) in the list above for this bike, now corrected, thanks.
More details of any bikes with these stampings would be welcome, personnally, I would especially like to see any MF serial bicycles.
Best Regards,
Adrian
thanks for your picture (and the PM's too). The picture of the unrestore Lady's bike is very useful, though it caused a slight 'oops' moment at first, because it was so out of sequence.
However, I already have an 'after restoration' photo from the person that you (presumably) sold it to.:
which shows the in-sequence K7 that was hidden under the paint. I have never seen the L4 type number before, it could be some other form of stock check, and maybe stamped after it was supplied to the army.
And, yes, I had made an error with the last number of the serial ( 8 instead of 3) in the list above for this bike, now corrected, thanks.
More details of any bikes with these stampings would be welcome, personnally, I would especially like to see any MF serial bicycles.
Best Regards,
Adrian
Mercian
I live for the CABE
Hi Bozman,
Thank you, I appreciate your help. If possible, I would like the frame number, whether it has a curved or straight bar, the 'other number' stamped on the crank hanger, the date code on the Eclipse rear hub (if you think it is original) and whether it is a Coffin or Sweetheart type chainwheel. These are all details I'm collecting to try to make sense of the numbers.
I already have details of your bikes as follows;
Serial Number....Frame Type....Crank Hanger....Eclipse hub....Chainring
MG 137342..............Straight.................K6.........................M1...........Sweetheart
MG 151142............N/K (Mens).............K8.........................N/K.................N/K
Best Regards,
Adrian
Thank you, I appreciate your help. If possible, I would like the frame number, whether it has a curved or straight bar, the 'other number' stamped on the crank hanger, the date code on the Eclipse rear hub (if you think it is original) and whether it is a Coffin or Sweetheart type chainwheel. These are all details I'm collecting to try to make sense of the numbers.
I already have details of your bikes as follows;
Serial Number....Frame Type....Crank Hanger....Eclipse hub....Chainring
MG 137342..............Straight.................K6.........................M1...........Sweetheart
MG 151142............N/K (Mens).............K8.........................N/K.................N/K
Best Regards,
Adrian
Bozman
Wore out three sets of tires already!
Adrian
I'll give you all the info I can find on them. Some of them are civilian models built during the war but this should give you a broader range of information for the overall Columbia production during the war. I'll indicate the model of each of the bikes.
Keep up the great work
Boz
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
I'll give you all the info I can find on them. Some of them are civilian models built during the war but this should give you a broader range of information for the overall Columbia production during the war. I'll indicate the model of each of the bikes.
Keep up the great work
Boz
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Mercian
I live for the CABE
Hi All,
Boz, thanks for the encouragement.
I think I will try to compile a full list of the different frame and BB numbers. The format could be a little difficult, since I can't transfer Excel tables directly to this site, but that just means it'll take a little longer (-:
Izee2 sent me details on a Balloon tire military reinforced frame Compax he owns, which are very useful. (Credit to him too for the BB photo of the restored MG141623, above).
Compax J5364, apart from being nice to see, gives me two fun things. It's the first BB number ending in 12 that I've seen, until this point the highest was 10, so I did wonder for a while if someone had decimalised the year. Now, so long as none with numbers bigger than 12 appear, I think should be safe in saying that they are months.
Secondly, although I think that L12 is December 1944, Mr Columbia listings say that the frame number is from the 1945 series, J5000 to J114781. The number is very early in this series, so presumably stamped in January 1945. This implies that the J12 is stamped in December 1944 when the frame is made, and the serial number a little later, perhaps when the bicycle is finished, so that there is some 'work in hand' without serial numbers. This may also mean there is some mixing of BB numbers and Frame numbers as one month finishes and another starts. Mr Columbia, do you know at what point in production a serial number was normally added?
Have a Good Weekend,
Best Regards,
Adrian
Boz, thanks for the encouragement.
I think I will try to compile a full list of the different frame and BB numbers. The format could be a little difficult, since I can't transfer Excel tables directly to this site, but that just means it'll take a little longer (-:
Izee2 sent me details on a Balloon tire military reinforced frame Compax he owns, which are very useful. (Credit to him too for the BB photo of the restored MG141623, above).
Compax J5364, apart from being nice to see, gives me two fun things. It's the first BB number ending in 12 that I've seen, until this point the highest was 10, so I did wonder for a while if someone had decimalised the year. Now, so long as none with numbers bigger than 12 appear, I think should be safe in saying that they are months.
Secondly, although I think that L12 is December 1944, Mr Columbia listings say that the frame number is from the 1945 series, J5000 to J114781. The number is very early in this series, so presumably stamped in January 1945. This implies that the J12 is stamped in December 1944 when the frame is made, and the serial number a little later, perhaps when the bicycle is finished, so that there is some 'work in hand' without serial numbers. This may also mean there is some mixing of BB numbers and Frame numbers as one month finishes and another starts. Mr Columbia, do you know at what point in production a serial number was normally added?
Have a Good Weekend,
Best Regards,
Adrian
MrColumbia
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
As far as I know the serial numbers went by calendar year. This was true when I worked there anyway. Back in the 1940's I have no idea. Unfortunately there is nobody left that could answer that question for sure.
Unlike Schwinn where months were part of the serial number Westfield did not take as much care to put extra info in these numbers. Just take a look at the published charts. Letter codes are skipped and others are reused years later. I've also seen plenty of Columbia's where it's obvious what year and model but the serial number says otherwise.
If your theory is correct and the letter/number combo above the serial number is the month then you have come one step closer to cracking the code.
I will go through all my bikes and take note of the codes and see if there is any correlation with what you are finding. Afterall, if true this applies to civilian models both pre an post war.
Unlike Schwinn where months were part of the serial number Westfield did not take as much care to put extra info in these numbers. Just take a look at the published charts. Letter codes are skipped and others are reused years later. I've also seen plenty of Columbia's where it's obvious what year and model but the serial number says otherwise.
If your theory is correct and the letter/number combo above the serial number is the month then you have come one step closer to cracking the code.
I will go through all my bikes and take note of the codes and see if there is any correlation with what you are finding. Afterall, if true this applies to civilian models both pre an post war.
MrColumbia
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
I've just gone through most of my late 30's 40's bikes both civilian and military and here are what I have;
1939 Ladies..........................................................................................Serial number D21134..................code E8
1942 Lightweight Civilian Compax prewar frame style.........................Serial number G29121..................code J1
1944 Marine issue Men's....................................................................Serial number MC14643A.............code L1
1944 Ladies Straight bar Civilian Blackout...........................................Serial number W76814A................code L9
1945 Military Model lightweight Compax (known navy issue).......Serial number J33428....................code 2N
No bikes in the 40's from 1946 on, of which I have 3 Compax have the code. The serial numbers although still under the crank hanger are obviously stamped with a different machine in a smaller, more uniform font.
The 40's data would seem to confirm you idea that in the 40's anyway these codes do indeed indicate year and month. An anomaly in my list is the 45 Navy. Could the N stand for Navy? The letter and number are in the opposite order as well. Is there any other known Navy bikes out there to confirm this?
Going back to the 30's for reference I have the 39 with an E code. This does not fit the code if counting backwards with J=42 then (I-41, H=40, G=39). The 39 is two letters off. Once I can get at another 39 of mine and a 41 I will confirm those codes and see what I can come up with.
In all I am becoming convinced these codes are year/month for wartime Westfield's anyway. Great work Mercian!
1939 Ladies..........................................................................................Serial number D21134..................code E8
1942 Lightweight Civilian Compax prewar frame style.........................Serial number G29121..................code J1
1944 Marine issue Men's....................................................................Serial number MC14643A.............code L1
1944 Ladies Straight bar Civilian Blackout...........................................Serial number W76814A................code L9
1945 Military Model lightweight Compax (known navy issue).......Serial number J33428....................code 2N
No bikes in the 40's from 1946 on, of which I have 3 Compax have the code. The serial numbers although still under the crank hanger are obviously stamped with a different machine in a smaller, more uniform font.
The 40's data would seem to confirm you idea that in the 40's anyway these codes do indeed indicate year and month. An anomaly in my list is the 45 Navy. Could the N stand for Navy? The letter and number are in the opposite order as well. Is there any other known Navy bikes out there to confirm this?
Going back to the 30's for reference I have the 39 with an E code. This does not fit the code if counting backwards with J=42 then (I-41, H=40, G=39). The 39 is two letters off. Once I can get at another 39 of mine and a 41 I will confirm those codes and see what I can come up with.
In all I am becoming convinced these codes are year/month for wartime Westfield's anyway. Great work Mercian!
HUFFMANBILL
Finally riding a big boys bike
In my collection of Columbia/Huffman military bikes I have two military compax models. Both are from 1945 and both have the extra rear frame braces. One is the balloon tire F-92H ( S/N - J23777 with the single letter and number code of N3) See attached pic. The F-92L lightweight tire model ( S/N - J72603 does not appear to have a single letter number code that I can locate). It is interesting that Mr. Columbias 2N bike has a higher S/N tthen mine, but mine is stamped N3.
Regards,
Bill Strong
johan willaert
Finally riding a big boys bike
From my photofiles or observations since 1995...
Serial Number....Frame Type....Crank Hanger.......Chainring
G34557..............Vg295........................H12...............................
G65333..............Vg296........................??.................................
MG 41727..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 43298..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 43488..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 43592..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 43678..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 47928..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 48466..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 54445..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 87566..............Straight...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 88661..............Straight...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 92217..............Straight........................J9.................Coffin
MG 94023..............Straight........................J10...............Coffin
MG 94039..............Straight........................J10...............Coffin
MG 96502..............Straight........................Invisible.......Coffin
MG 97997..............Straight........................J10...............Coffin
MG 99828..............Straight........................J10...............Coffin
MG 100646............Straight........................J9.................Coffin
MG 100875............Straight........................Invisible.......Coffin
MG 116892............Straight........................J10...............Coffin
MG 118720............Straight........................K2................Coffin
MG 119088.............Straight........................K2...............Coffin
MG 120037.............Straight........................Invisible......Coffin
MG 134475.............Straight........................K?...............Sweetheart
MG 135749.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 136504.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 138969.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 142656.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 145642.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 151647.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 152553.............Straight........................K?...............Sweetheart
MG 154118.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 156708.............Straight........................K8...............Sweetheart
MG 198492.............Straight........................L1...............Sweetheart
MG6771A................Straight........................L1...............Coffin
MG6945A................Straight........................Invisible.......??
MC14625A..............Straight.......................L1.................Coffin
MC14626A..............Straight.......................L1.................Coffin
MC14629A..............Straight.......................L1.................Coffin
MC14643A..............Straight.......................L1.................Coffin
MG139871..............Womens......................Invisible........Womens
MG140418..............Womens......................K6................Womens
MG141650..............Womens......................K7................Womens
MG141762..............Womens......................K7................Womens
MG154703..............Womens......................??.................??
Serial Number....Frame Type....Crank Hanger.......Chainring
G34557..............Vg295........................H12...............................
G65333..............Vg296........................??.................................
MG 41727..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 43298..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 43488..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 43592..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 43678..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 47928..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 48466..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 54445..............Curved...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 87566..............Straight...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 88661..............Straight...................?? if any............Coffin
MG 92217..............Straight........................J9.................Coffin
MG 94023..............Straight........................J10...............Coffin
MG 94039..............Straight........................J10...............Coffin
MG 96502..............Straight........................Invisible.......Coffin
MG 97997..............Straight........................J10...............Coffin
MG 99828..............Straight........................J10...............Coffin
MG 100646............Straight........................J9.................Coffin
MG 100875............Straight........................Invisible.......Coffin
MG 116892............Straight........................J10...............Coffin
MG 118720............Straight........................K2................Coffin
MG 119088.............Straight........................K2...............Coffin
MG 120037.............Straight........................Invisible......Coffin
MG 134475.............Straight........................K?...............Sweetheart
MG 135749.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 136504.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 138969.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 142656.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 145642.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 151647.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 152553.............Straight........................K?...............Sweetheart
MG 154118.............Straight........................Invisible......Sweetheart
MG 156708.............Straight........................K8...............Sweetheart
MG 198492.............Straight........................L1...............Sweetheart
MG6771A................Straight........................L1...............Coffin
MG6945A................Straight........................Invisible.......??
MC14625A..............Straight.......................L1.................Coffin
MC14626A..............Straight.......................L1.................Coffin
MC14629A..............Straight.......................L1.................Coffin
MC14643A..............Straight.......................L1.................Coffin
MG139871..............Womens......................Invisible........Womens
MG140418..............Womens......................K6................Womens
MG141650..............Womens......................K7................Womens
MG141762..............Womens......................K7................Womens
MG154703..............Womens......................??.................??
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