1945-46 Schwinn Dx

[Just Jeff]

Not quite done with the frame, but got most of it bead blasted today. Had to get some chemical stripper for some spots the paint didn’t want to come off of. Anyhow, here are a few detail shots of some of the joints

 

[Just Jeff]

More pics

 

[GTs58]

Excellent! Love the shots of the BB. Rude N crude at the chain stays! Thank you.

Edit: I'm still in disbelief that Schwinn didn't prime coat the frame!

 

[Oilit]

Excellent! Love the shots of the BB. Rude N crude at the chain stays! Thank you.

Edit: I'm still in disbelief that Schwinn didn't prime coat the frame!

My '46? doesn't show any primer either. @Jeff54 has convinced me that the phosphate treatment is the only reason the steel isn't a solid coat of rust. Maybe the suppliers hadn't fully recovered from war-time restrictions and shortages?

 

[GTs58]

My '46? doesn't show any primer either. @Jeff54 has convinced me that the phosphate treatment is the only reason the steel isn't a solid coat of rust. Maybe the suppliers hadn't fully recovered from war-time restrictions and shortages?

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The sheet metal not be primed really doesn't shock me, but the frames too? I've seen plenty of Schwinn tanks and fenders, and some guards with no primer over the years but it's somewhat disturbing to see that the frames didn't get primed. Was there something Schwinn learned during war time other than the acid dip that primed/preserved the metal? Was this just with the red colors only? Years ago I was told by Momo that I was crazy when I said that Schwinn didn't use the red primer on some bikes during and around the 1963 production. This was mainly on the new Flamboyant Red pieces. I have a 63 Flambo Red Corvette and when I stripped the fork there was no primer. The frame was not stripped but I could see there was definitely no primer on the frame either. I did some searching and found quite few other 63's that had no red oxide primer, including a few Varsitys were they were only showing the aluminum base coat after all the paint was faded or fell off. I still believe that during that time Schwinn was experimenting with a new paint that was a primer and the silver/aluminum base coat all in one for the candy colored paint. Stamped sheet metal is smooth and no grinding or sanding required, but a frame is cleaned up after being built and the primer helps fill in some of the flaws like the sanding/grinding marks and the primer has been said to be sanded before painting the frames. I had a mess of pictures on these 63 Flamboyant Red pieces on the Schwinn Bike Forum, but they are long gone.

 

[Jeff54]

My '46? doesn't show any primer either. @Jeff54 has convinced me that the phosphate treatment is the only reason the steel isn't a solid coat of rust. Maybe the suppliers hadn't fully recovered from war-time restrictions and shortages?

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Humbly, tks for the mention. However, I would not take credit, as to referring this Schwin, nor consider that I made an effort to 'convince' as, that's awfully strong word. However, I know that Olit and I have discussed the subject and how it helps prevent rust and it was a primary raw coating that is known of their 1st coating and painting process in the 50's or 60's, to be sure. And we've discussed the potential of another bike he has, Shelby, where there's heavy paint loss that virtually, for lack of better description, has peeled off in areas you would not want to occur on any bike or whatever and also appears that; there's no rust or primer under it. So, on his Shelby, it suggested the possibility.

And to add to that, you've got what appears to be post war 46-7? DX without primer as well. That's one I would have never expected to see.


And, while I have not explored this possibility; it causes me to wonder if that's what the 90's Schwinn China bikes did and are doing before paint to cut costs: no primer just rust inhibitors like that. ?

Enter long-winded part, Disclaimer: If you try this, do it at your own risk :

Another point of interest for further evaluations, for those who may be considering raw metal prep on restoration projects with Oxalic acid in rust removal and old original paint brightener dips. : Take worse case; A Tubular Schwinn rim or Springer legs and struts? , you'll never really know what happens inside unless ya waist one and chop it up to see.

On consideration regarding raw metal rust inhibitors is that; I'm currently experimenting with Oxalic acid. Perhaps it has the same qualities as Phosphates.

A rusted-up mower part (battery tray) with quite a bit of rust from typical battery acid and constant exposure, B/C I leave my mower out all year. . I dipped it in pretty strong Oxalic acid because, I wanted it cleared quick! What rust that didn't come off after sanding and wire brush etc. turns near black. So, I neutralized it with baking soda. Spit! that works quick. However, all the rust color came back instantly! I tried again to get more off but couldn't, least I grind the sheet metal way to thin across the board.

Moreover, I was also considering what happens to bicycle parts, frames, fenders and wheels etc.? Now, after neutralizing the acid on the raw metal, I expect, back to rust color was not something ya want to do. I've painted, worked on my own classic and old cars where there's areas you can't get behind, with Rust-Oleum Primers and or red led and or general primers and; that comes back to haunt U. So, I dipped again, rust went black which is what I've seen happen in Phosphate washes. Painted it with cheep priced Wally world Rust-Oleum that's not a primer, just regular gloss or semi. (I know that; it's not as good over raw rust as they claim, by far.). Anyways, it's quite a few months later now and it looks exactly as it did when I refurbished it.
Note: I do like that the Rust-Oleum I used took several days to harden. I also thought to put it out in the bright and extra HOT SW Florida Sun in an attempt to bake it while fresh wet. Bad idea! It bubbled everywhere. I had to cool it off, and try sanding it out while it wasn't completely hard yet then spray again. . So, I waited a bit and placed it back in the sun. It did not harden still but at least, didn't friggen boil. Ha!

I did this for a neighbor friend, except had not tried my fresh wet idea, yet. He'd asked me to spray his new factory primed Valance for his 81 Toyota truck. It was gloss Black in rattle can he'd bought, supposed to be, auto paint off Ebay. I managed to squeeze about 4 coats on it. Spray, wait a few minutes, spray, wait, etc. to prevent runs. I learned to spray as a kid, on my bikes, [wink] It was still soft after 24 hours. I put it in hot sun. and It took a few weeks to finally lay down and get hard. Albiet, it was cooling at night, but Sun would make it soft during the day until as said, it finally laid down and dried hard in day time, really nice, hard and glossy. . He installed it, drove every day to construction jobs. U no? Dirt, mud, sand, dust, N crap places. U know a Valance mounts under the front grill and takes quite a bit of road rash too. In a year's time, no chips, scratches etc. I think, maybe, it cooked just right. Go figure? Alas, he sold it so, couldn't keep following up.

So, anyway, the cheap Rust-Oleum seems to behave the same as what I did to his Valance. Vary slow to dry when multiple coats are laid. It was still soft, days later, but didn't have time to wait. It did though, finally laid down and harden weeks later too. Pretty sure, the heat kept it from dry completely, even after installed, Did I mention how HOT the beaming Son it gets? ]grin and my tray Feels good as my friend's did.

Maybe, should I live long enough, or I get another mower and dump mine, to report back, maybe the Oxalic acid coat/dip will prove to act as phosphate treatment does. I mean, at least we know or should that, raw metal begins rusting as it cools. Raw thin chrome metal rusts for that, not to leave out is more porous then you'd think.

Yet the question remains for now. What happens inside tubular rims after a dip. What protection, if any, does an Oxalic acid dip on you rusty painted parts? Will, after a dip in O.A., the rust inside tubs come back and haunt U even worse? Can U bake a frame in sunlight? Or, an other Idear I been thunkin; make a Plexiglas container (Old school solar water heating box) to bake, like Schwinn and other did, paints hard and durable, in the sun too.
.
.
.

 

[Oilit]

Humbly, tks for the mention. However, I would not take credit, as to referring this Schwin, nor consider that I made an effort to 'convince' as, that's awfully strong word. However, I know that Olit and I have discussed the subject and how it helps prevent rust and it was a primary raw coating that is known of their 1st coating and painting process in the 50's or 60's, to be sure. And we've discussed the potential of another bike he has, Shelby, where there's heavy paint loss that virtually, for lack of better description, has peeled off in areas you would not want to occur on any bike or whatever and also appears that; there's no rust or primer under it. So, on his Shelby, it suggested the possibility.

And to add to that, you've got what appears to be post war 46-7? DX without primer as well. That's one I would have never expected to see.


And, while I have not explored this possibility; it causes me to wonder if that's what the 90's Schwinn China bikes did and are doing before paint to cut costs: no primer just rust inhibitors like that. ?

Enter long-winded part, Disclaimer: If you try this, do it at your own risk :

Another point of interest for further evaluations, for those who may be considering raw metal prep on restoration projects with Oxalic acid in rust removal and old original paint brightener dips. : Take worse case; A Tubular Schwinn rim or Springer legs and struts? , you'll never really know what happens inside unless ya waist one and chop it up to see.

On consideration regarding raw metal rust inhibitors is that; I'm currently experimenting with Oxalic acid. Perhaps it has the same qualities as Phosphates.

A rusted-up mower part (battery tray) with quite a bit of rust from typical battery acid and constant exposure, B/C I leave my mower out all year. . I dipped it in pretty strong Oxalic acid because, I wanted it cleared quick! What rust that didn't come off after sanding and wire brush etc. turns near black. So, I neutralized it with baking soda. Spit! that works quick. However, all the rust color came back instantly! I tried again to get more off but couldn't, least I grind the sheet metal way to thin across the board.

Moreover, I was also considering what happens to bicycle parts, frames, fenders and wheels etc.? Now, after neutralizing the acid on the raw metal, I expect, back to rust color was not something ya want to do. I've painted, worked on my own classic and old cars where there's areas you can't get behind, with Rust-Oleum Primers and or red led and or general primers and; that comes back to haunt U. So, I dipped again, rust went black which is what I've seen happen in Phosphate washes. Painted it with cheep priced Wally world Rust-Oleum that's not a primer, just regular gloss or semi. (I know that; it's not as good over raw rust as they claim, by far.). Anyways, it's quite a few months later now and it looks exactly as it did when I refurbished it.
Note: I do like that the Rust-Oleum I used took several days to harden. I also thought to put it out in the bright and extra HOT SW Florida Sun in an attempt to bake it while fresh wet. Bad idea! It bubbled everywhere. I had to cool it off, and try sanding it out while it wasn't completely hard yet then spray again. . So, I waited a bit and placed it back in the sun. It did not harden still but at least, didn't friggen boil. Ha!

I did this for a neighbor friend, except had not tried my fresh wet idea, yet. He'd asked me to spray his new factory primed Valance for his 81 Toyota truck. It was gloss Black in rattle can he'd bought, supposed to be, auto paint off Ebay. I managed to squeeze about 4 coats on it. Spray, wait a few minutes, spray, wait, etc. to prevent runs. I learned to spray as a kid, on my bikes, [wink] It was still soft after 24 hours. I put it in hot sun. and It took a few weeks to finally lay down and get hard. Albiet, it was cooling at night, but Sun would make it soft during the day until as said, it finally laid down and dried hard in day time, really nice, hard and glossy. . He installed it, drove every day to construction jobs. U no? Dirt, mud, sand, dust, N crap places. U know a Valance mounts under the front grill and takes quite a bit of road rash too. In a year's time, no chips, scratches etc. I think, maybe, it cooked just right. Go figure? Alas, he sold it so, couldn't keep following up.

So, anyway, the cheap Rust-Oleum seems to behave the same as what I did to his Valance. Vary slow to dry when multiple coats are laid. It was still soft, days later, but didn't have time to wait. It did though, finally laid down and harden weeks later too. Pretty sure, the heat kept it from dry completely, even after installed, Did I mention how HOT the beaming Son it gets? ]grin and my tray Feels good as my friend's did.

Maybe, should I live long enough, or I get another mower and dump mine, to report back, maybe the Oxalic acid coat/dip will prove to act as phosphate treatment does. I mean, at least we know or should that, raw metal begins rusting as it cools. Raw thin chrome metal rusts for that, not to leave out is more porous then you'd think.

Yet the question remains for now. What happens inside tubular rims after a dip. What protection, if any, does an Oxalic acid dip on you rusty painted parts? Will, after a dip in O.A., the rust inside tubs come back and haunt U even worse? Can U bake a frame in sunlight? Or, an other Idear I been thunkin; make a Plexiglas container (Old school solar water heating box) to bake, like Schwinn and other did, paints hard and durable, in the sun too.
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.
.

Maybe "convinced' isn't the right word, but I didn't understand how the steel stayed as clean as it is until you mentioned the phosphate. Credit where credit's due.

 

[Just Jeff]

Still busy at work so I’m not finished cleaning the frame yet.
I did talk to a friend who also has an original paint 45-46 oddball Dx. His bike also has no signs of a primer coat on the frame/fork.
His and mine are the first two I’ve encountered that don’t appear to have the primer

 

[barneyguey]

My '46? doesn't show any primer either. @Jeff54 has convinced me that the phosphate treatment is the only reason the steel isn't a solid coat of rust. Maybe the suppliers hadn't fully recovered from war-time restrictions and shortages?

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What's that badge say? Thank you. Barry

 

[YenkoStingerMaxx]

Very cool!