1962 "Schwinn! Classic Custom" King Size

[Schwinn Sales West]

4mm difference divided by 2 is only 2mm off of center. I'd guess that most production frames are off by a millimeter or two.

Good to see it rideable. I like that old truss fork. They built some cool features back in the day.

John

 

[WillWork4Parts]

4mm difference divided by 2 is only 2mm off of center. I'd guess that most production frames are off by a millimeter or two.

Good to see it rideable. I like that old truss fork. They built some cool features back in the day.

John

The frame misalignment was more than visible with a wheel(verified centered with dish gauge) pushed all the way back in the drop outs though. It's hideous when I see a wheel not centered in the stays.

 

[WillWork4Parts]

Just checked my 61 Speedster. I've lost my caliper (had it 2 days ago, sheesh!). Best I can do is a ruler for the moment. I have about 7.5mm from the inside of the chainring to the BB shell (where you got 5.38 if I understand your measurement correctly). But, I have the spacer between the chainring and the inner cone.

I have about 7.5mm from the kickstand to the chainring too, so the chainring would have cleared the kickstand without the spacer. I can't say for sure if Schwinn put that spacer there or if maybe I did it correcting the chainline at some point. My guess is Schwinn put it there but I can't be sure.

This bike has the expected men's 6-1/2" crank and 46t clover chainring with the teeth slightly offset to the inside. It has a Bendix triple red band 2 speed kickback. Offhand I think those hubs have a 45mm chainline, but it has been years since I measured one. Maybe it was less.

EDIT: Pretty sure it was less... Now where is my caliper?
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I am very certain that the "Crank Spacer Washer" did not come as standard equipment on coaster brake bikes. The only proof I have is the hundreds of bikes that I've had apart...and none left in my stock after having parted a bunch out and needing them for the 5sp sprockets when installing on another bike.
I went to the catalogs to show that, but the detail of it being used on the stingrays was left out until 1974. I remember all of the Krates I've detailed having it for sure and then parting out some Suburbans and Collegiates that had it, doesn't show up in the parts specs though.
Here are the 3 instances I found of it called out.

Crank Spacer Washer was not even called out in the 62-63 price guide I have, the 9 ball bearing retainer is though. The 10 ball retainer is called out for use with cup, prior to 1946.

This King Size American had to roll out from the factory with the washer to be rideable though. I wish I had 62 and 63 parts specs to say whether they called it out or not. @GTs58 you said the Corvette 5spds you've had apart didn't have it, right? Odd that the first place I clock it as a factory spec is on the 15sp with triple plateau.

Here are the other specs where it wasn't called out. I expected the Fastback to be the first to use it.

 

[WillWork4Parts]

The service manuals mention the Spacer Washer briefly on a tandem, but in the same 2 pages, they show a "Mag" sprocket and a Triple Plateau without the use of the washer. Lol

The 67 price guide I have mentions a lot more washers, but with a different numbering system. Not a lot of context there. Pretty sure the 3 cent spacers are for 3 and 5 bolt chainrings.

 

[GTs58]

@WillWork4Parts The Corvette 5 speed was Schwinn's first production 5 speed model, plus it was a Middleweight. It used a thinner front sprocket for the 3/32 chains and Schwinn reversed the sprocket offset with the dish out. After the Corvette 5 was discontinued at the end of the 62 model year there were no 5 speeds made in 1963. In 1964 the Collegiate 5 speed was introduced, and it was equipped with the same front sprocket that the Corvette used, part #6355, and it was also installed with the offset to the outside. Then for the 1968 model Collegiates Schwinn reversed the offset on the 6355 ring to the inside and then added the spacer washer. For 1969 they used the Mag sprocket, and I have no idea how that was set up. When the first 5 speed cruisers came out (Klunker, Spitfire) Schwinn produced a new 5 speed sprocket and they were also installed with the offset to the outside.

I can see why your KS might need a spacer washer if your stand tube was welded on protruding further out since there is a very small gap between that tube and sprocket. A slight depth variation in your cup may also be causing part of the clearance issue. Here's one of my 1961 Corvette 5's frames and the stand tubes appear to be EF'd and then some added brazing. On my 62's the rear caliper/fender brackets, front chain guard mounting tab and cable guides were EF'd, not brazed on.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

The service manuals mention the Spacer Washer briefly on a tandem, but in the same 2 pages, they show a "Mag" sprocket and a Triple Plateau without the use of the washer. Lol

View attachment 2161828

View attachment 2161829
The 67 price guide I have mentions a lot more washers, but with a different numbering system. Not a lot of context there. Pretty sure the 3 cent spacers are for 3 and 5 bolt chainrings.

View attachment 2161830

View attachment 2161831

@WillWork4Parts you're killing me on the spacer subject, LOL. I don't want anyone "roping up" on Christmas Day over "what models, and why" Schwinn added the crank spacer washer.

The spacer washer was used for different purposes on different models. It was used "as needed", just like today, you might or might not need to use one depending on the stack height and clearance of the mixture of parts you're trying to use.

The reason you see it used on the rear Tandem Crank application was not to space the crank/sprocket away from the frame parts and bottom bracket, but to spread the distance of the double sprockets so the primary and secondary chains could freely run next to each other. It had nothing to do with the bottom bracket sizing.

The spacer washer was around for a long time. As an available part for service needs. If you look at the parts breakdowns for the pages shown above over the roughly ten-year period you will notice a big difference in the amount of small details Schwinn added or left out for the parts shown for each model. The purpose for the "Spec. Sheets" was to help the dealer order the correct replacement parts for damaged bicycles. They were not intended to be the Schwinn Restoration Bible fifty years after the fact. It's pretty cool that we have as much detail as we do, and for the most part its accurate by model and year, "most of the time". You would be surprised looking at my fifty-year-old Salesmen's Catalog Pages with all of the handwritten changes and updates written into the margins, and pages added between the original factory printed pages. The dealers, distributors, and factory people had to use the catalogs for a full year "after the catalog was printed", so additions and changes were a normally accepted thing.

Happy Holidays

John

 

[WillWork4Parts]

@WillWork4Parts The Corvette 5 speed was Schwinn's first production 5 speed model, plus it was a Middleweight. It used a thinner front sprocket for the 3/32 chains and Schwinn reversed the sprocket offset with the dish out. After the Corvette 5 was discontinued at the end of the 62 model year there were no 5 speeds made in 1963. In 1964 the Collegiate 5 speed was introduced, and it was equipped with the same front sprocket that the Corvette used, part #6355, and it was also installed with the offset to the outside. Then for the 1968 model Collegiates Schwinn reversed the offset on the 6355 ring to the inside and then added the spacer washer. For 1969 they used the Mag sprocket, and I have no idea how that was set up. When the first 5 speed cruisers came out (Klunker, Spitfire) Schwinn produced a new 5 speed sprocket and they were also installed with the offset to the outside.

I can see why your KS might need a spacer washer if your stand tube was welded on protruding further out since there is a very small gap between that tube and sprocket. A slight depth variation in your cup may also be causing part of the clearance issue. Here's one of my 1961 Corvette 5's frames and the stand tubes appear to be EF'd and then some added brazing. On my 62's the rear caliper/fender brackets, front chain guard mounting tab and cable guides were EF'd, not brazed on.
View attachment 2161843

This is not a cup variation though. I have had 3 different sets of complete assemblies installed, assemblies that I kept together from original bikes and the sprocket still rubs the same. Well, the one that came on it was a mismatched set and it had the wrong year sprocket installed and dished to clear, it even had the 10 ball #66 retainers, clearly they didn't belong together since both race surfaces were destroyed.

 

[GTs58]

This is not a cup variation though. I have had 3 different sets of complete assemblies installed, assemblies that I kept together from original bikes and the sprocket still rubs the same. Well, the one that came on it was a mismatched set and it had the wrong year sprocket installed and dished to clear, it even had the 10 ball #66 retainers, clearly they didn't belong together since both race surfaces were destroyed.

Will the spacer washer and a cup that's not severely worn out solve your clearance issue? Here's a shot of my 62 Corvette and I kept the my phone as close to vertical as I could with the frame. The sprocket has plenty of clearance and the chain line is back on the stand tube.

 

[WillWork4Parts]

Roping up??? I'm not sure I've heard that term. If it's a boxing metaphor...
Well, I've got a tag team, one telling me to install aftermarket parts and both telling me that my parts aren't factory assemblies. Yes? No?

I know how to install aftermarket parts and I know how to source original parts...
This frame should not have had that issue from the factory though is what I'm trying to get at. It's an odd size frame from the top of the steer tube, seat tube, and angle of the seat stays, but that should not have been a reason to offset the kickstand. It's a basic middleweight on the lower half, I even used the kickstand from the Hungarian Cruiser to replace the rough original chrome one. I am trying to understand why it was made this way...when the only clearance issue I've ever had before this was when trying to install the later kickstand tool.

 

[bloo]

To the best of my knowledge, all of those postwar Schwinn 9 bearing bottom bracket sets for electroforged Schwinns are interchangeable both as assemblies or as parts. You have already discovered more differences than I knew about. Now to be clear, I am no sort of expert on the subject, and this all comes from working on bikes when I was a kid, so you should take my posts on the subject with a grain of salt. Nevertheless, the fact that you found no difference in the "stack height" of these does not surprise me at all. I don't recall ever having any trouble with that. These sets were predictable in that they were always made of high quality hard steel, and almost always still good when found in the wild. I used to put them in non-Schwinns. I have one of those sets in my 81 RaceLine right now.

There is cup variation, but not like we have been discussing. Some are machined with a square shouldered O.D., some with a rounded O.D., and some even appear stamped. I have never noticed any incompatibility. Until someone proves otherwise, I believe those bottom bracket sets are all made to the same stack height.

I have noticed some frames with anomalies where the factory appears to have missed slightly welding the frame together. Of course years after the fact I don't know for sure what I was looking at, but it sure seems that way. I think they just missed a little on your kickstand. It sticks out further than on my 61, and further than the other bike you posted. How did Schwinn get it out the door? If they had thrown it on the scrap pile, we wouldn't be discussing it now. I'll bet they put a washer on it. I'll also bet that if you set up the chainline perfectly straight a stock chainwheel will miss that kickstand. My 61 has at least 2mm of spacer in it. Maybe Schwinn put it in there, maybe I did. I don't know. It is clear even measuring with a ruler that it did not need that ~2mm for clearance.
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