1968? Schwinn Paramount i.d. help

Most Recent BUY IT NOW Items Listed on eBay
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
These ads go away when you register for an account!

Eric Amlie

Finally riding a big boys bike
May 9, 2010
392
Madison, United States
Yes, looks like the 11th frame from October of '68.
AFAIK, there is no difference in the frame set between the P11 & P12, so the only way to distinguish between them is the component package the bike is equipped with(handlebar, stem, brake levers, pedals, saddle etc.).
Attached is the page from the '68 consumer catalog. Not much info here. Unfortunately I don't have the '68 dealer catalog. That would be much more helpful.
Nice find!

1096281
 
Last edited:

buses n bikes

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 24, 2018
455
34
Ames, Iowa
Thank you for weighing in, @Eric Amlie! I recall your lightweight experience dating way back to the original Schwinn forums!

Do you know, was 1969 the last year for the Tourist? I agree that it's going to come down to the parts - am thinking this is a P11 due to the crankset.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sven and Goldenrod

Eric Amlie

Finally riding a big boys bike
May 9, 2010
392
Madison, United States
I'm not finding either the P11 or the P12 listed in the '69 catalog, so '68 was probably the last year for these models.
Obviously a lot of parts were changed on your bike, so I think it's going to be impossible to know(without a provenance report from Waterford) whether your's started life as a Tourist model or a Sports model. Both the P11 and the P12 used that crankset.
 

Vicious Cycle

Look Ma, No Hands!
May 11, 2014
27
left coast
I'm not finding either the P11 or the P12 listed in the '69 catalog, so '68 was probably the last year for these models.
Obviously a lot of parts were changed on your bike, so I think it's going to be impossible to know(without a provenance report from Waterford) whether your's started life as a Tourist model or a Sports model. Both the P11 and the P12 used that crankset.
My educated guess is P12. The original stem would be a Titan and would have steel bars if it was a factory Tourist. Everything else looks correct for a '68
 

juvela

I live for the CABE
Aug 2, 2014
1,207
Playa del Rey, United States
-----

Thanks very much for posting & sharing this example! ;)

Evidence of having been reworked -

front brake hanger later than cycle, this pattern did not exist at time of cycle's manufacture, it came along about one decade later

note the absence of QR for the rear brake

chainset is in shadow in all images

cannot tell if it is Stronglight Competition or NERVAR
ah, did an enlargement and can see that chainset is Stronglight Competition model Nr. 53

bottom bracket assembly appears Stronglight Competition Nr. 34 with hollow spindle

is this the correct model Brooks saddle for the Tourist of this time? Brooks B-17?

-----
 
Last edited:

Eric Amlie

Finally riding a big boys bike
May 9, 2010
392
Madison, United States
Agree. I shouldn't have said "a lot" of parts. More like a "few" parts.
If you put the correct stem, handlebar, and brake levers on, you have a correct P12.
I would guess that if it was a P11, it would still have the bow pedals on it, not the Lyotard 460d pedals that it has now, and which are correct for the P12.
Edit: I missed the front brake cable hanger which juvela pointed out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: buses n bikes

buses n bikes

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 24, 2018
455
34
Ames, Iowa
Thanks for your help, guys!

The shop owner installed those pedals last night, I do not recall what was on there before.

Well, sounds like a bike I could pretty much do whatever with. My plan is to not deviate from stock much, clean and service it and run some flat bars. It's slightly too big for me so I think that will be the most comfortable option.
 

buses n bikes

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 24, 2018
455
34
Ames, Iowa
Sorry all, one more...

Are these Nervex or Prugnat lugs? Being a ‘68 seems to put it smack dab in the middle of where both were used...

BE889DCF-7B2B-461D-BEC2-C4F8966B35D8.jpeg
 
This ad goes away when you register for an account!

buses n bikes

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 24, 2018
455
34
Ames, Iowa
@juvela Thanks for weighing in! Great points!

The saddle is a B17 and the crankset is a Stronglight. Sorry for the crummy photos from my dark basement shop!

44C4B8B1-70BD-4869-B71A-2FFB8239B2D9.jpeg
 

juvela

I live for the CABE
Aug 2, 2014
1,207
Playa del Rey, United States
-----

Lug pattern is Prugnat 62/s. Schwinn also built Paramounts with Prugnat lug pattern 62/d.

You will be able to gain a date confirmation from the inner face of the cycle's Campag hub axle locknuts.

If spokes Union (Union Frondenberg - Berg) this is confirmatory of a Schwinn wheel build.

You might wish to check to verify that the Lyotard 460D's fitted by dealer are 9/16" thread and not 14mm. May not be necessary to measure. If inner ends of spindles are marked D and G they are 14mm. If marked R and L they be 9/16". (Some 460D's have unmarked spindles.) Pedals fitted by dealer are the submodel intended to be compatible with alloy chainsets. Note the protrusion of the spindle end on the inner face of the crankarm. There was also a version of the 460D with shorter threaded section spindle intended for fitment to steel crankarms.

Brake calipers not shown especially well in any of the images provided. From what can be seen suspect they are the not oft encountered luxury finish. There was a period on the 1960's when Weinmann offered a luxury finish for the 610/750 centrepull brake calipers. In this variant the arms are not stamped nor labeled with the Weinmann name and model number. Rather it is screen printed in dark red and the finish is anodised after polishing. Count yourself fortunate to have received these.

Please post again when you have things sorted to your satisfaction.


-----
 
Last edited:

buses n bikes

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 24, 2018
455
34
Ames, Iowa
Shameless plug, would like to source a matching Weinmann dimpled rim to match the front. 27 x 1 1/4 36 hole. Thanks for any help!

18F43C52-AD44-4987-8E11-DF80BF881DB7.jpeg


6B92993A-5B6C-4077-85B1-FAA9068A370D.jpeg


397D80B9-D30A-43EE-A76E-FE2AA6F80A4D.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: juvela

juvela

I live for the CABE
Aug 2, 2014
1,207
Playa del Rey, United States
-----

Brakes -

thank you for the additional pictures

brakes original & correct

my error! :anguished:

they are the normal ones for the date

that's me fault for attempting to extrapolate too far from inadequate visual information

here is the luxury finish -


---

Titan -

in case you would like to return cycle to its original Titan stem/bar set there are two pieces of information you should have:

a) Titan stems and bars have a unique to them 27.0mm size for the stem clamp and bar centre

b) depending on the date the writing on the sleeve of the bar may be done to be read from the rider's side or from the front of the cycle. you will need to check which is correct for the 1968 date. i do not recall the date the change was made, forum member @non-fixie is an expert on Titan products. have sent him a message so he will be along shortly to assist you.

---

Weinmann rim sought -

it is model number 256 -


-----
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: buses n bikes

non-fixie

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jun 5, 2011
55
Yurp
The orientation of the script on the sleeve was changed around 1970, I believe. For 1968 this would be correct (1968 RIH, pictured as found, please disregard the ugly bar tape):

1k0_3136323762fd8e3590241adc7a0d0cd75493d498.jpg
 

buses n bikes

Finally riding a big boys bike
Oct 24, 2018
455
34
Ames, Iowa
Some progress. Tear down has been going smoothly with no surprises.

The pedal spindle does stick out a little from the crankset, yes.

I found no stamping on the bars nor stem so not sure if they're original or the quality of them. Thankfully, the super nice shop owner gave me a Cinelli bar and stem combo when I bought the bike. I'll plan on using the stem with some lightweight alt/comfort bars of which TBD.

thumbnail_IMG_0651.jpg


thumbnail_IMG_0652.jpg


thumbnail_IMG_0653.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: juvela
This ad goes away when you register for an account!