1971 Paramount P13-9 wheel restoration questions

[Stuckbolt]

While that is a nice Brooks saddle is is nowhere close to the BrooksPro that could have come standard on his bike, which would have had normal small head copper rivets and NOT had the "Pre-softened" logo. Brooks as fitted to Paramounts alledgedly WERE presoftened in Chicago with some machine that rolled repeatedly on them some period of time. (I believe I once saw a picture of said machine and I think it had aluminum roller and ran on air. I do not fully trust my memory on this ,tho.) The bike quite possibly came with the Unicanitor that is on it. Saddles are very much subjective. If you end up riding it a lot, you night want to try a Brooks, but it would not be my first concern.

Thanks for the clarification, I understand what you are saying and I too have seen the photo of the pre-softening machine at Schwinn. If the Unicanitor is not working out, I will pursue a Brooks to the spec you called out. My immediate concerns are stock rims, spokes and tires!

 

[Stuckbolt]

There are actually 2 saddles shown in those pics and yes, I know they are both newer than what would have, or could have come on a 1971 bike.

They are both very cool and thanks for sharing. Also thank you for your offer to contact your suppliers for 27" sew up tires. I may take you on on this as soon as I can figure out my rim issues!

 

[Stuckbolt]

Your straight sided rims are not for tubular tires! You can use hook bead tire if you really want, but not a recommended combo.

There are basically four rim types-

Tubular
Straight Sided
Hook Bead
Tubless (very modern)

IMHO-

If you plan on riding this bike more than around the block a few times a year, I'd go new but sorta vintage looking rims and new tires. Velocity makes quite a few rims that sorta fit the bill. Velo Orange has a few good vintage options. Some Mavic rims are good too, but most have machined sidewalls.

Straight sided rims are terrible, there’s a reason they were around a short time and why no one manufactures them today. Getting the bead to evenly seat can be a nightmare. Every time you tire deflates you have to reseat. Sometimes it goes well, but more often it’s a pita.


Tubulars days of glory are looong gone and are a waste of time.

Cut your loss on those rims, find 27 or 700c hook bead rims and go that route. Also remember spoke hole count! 36H isn't an option for all rim types!

Fun world your jumping into right?

Your straight sided rims are not for tubular tires! You can use hook bead tire if you really want, but not a recommended combo.

There are basically four rim types-

Tubular
Straight Sided
Hook Bead
Tubless (very modern)

IMHO-

If you plan on riding this bike more than around the block a few times a year, I'd go new but sorta vintage looking rims and new tires. Velocity makes quite a few rims that sorta fit the bill. Velo Orange has a few good vintage options. Some Mavic rims are good too, but most have machined sidewalls.

Straight sided rims are terrible, there’s a reason they were around a short time and why no one manufactures them today. Getting the bead to evenly seat can be a nightmare. Every time you tire deflates you have to reseat. Sometimes it goes well, but more often it’s a pita.


Tubulars days of glory are looong gone and are a waste of time.

Cut your loss on those rims, find 27 or 700c hook bead rims and go that route. Also remember spoke hole count! 36H isn't an option for all rim types!

Fun world your jumping into right?

OK. Based on what you are saying, I am understanding the (straight sided) rims I purchased are NOT for tubular (sew on) tires, therefore I goofed and bought the wrong Weinmann 27" rim set. I can believe it, but I hope it is not the case. I looked at many images of 71 Paramounts claiming to be original that had these 27" Weinmann rims with the raised bump at the spokes and defined "sharp edge" atop the sidewall. But hey, I am looking at pics on the internet!

Are there 1971 Paramount owners out there that believe their rims are original, that can kindly confirm if the pair of 27" Weinmann's I purchased match their set? If these are the original type, I will live with all of the downfalls they present and tire choices it limits me to... at least knowing I am restoring the bike stock! Thanks again for all of the input!

 

[PfishB]

The ability to hold a tire can vary from one model of hookless rim to the next and the tires used. I have a set of hookless 27" Weinmanns that look to be the same model as yours on my '72 Bottecchia Professional. Those hold tires up to 95lbs pressure with no issues and I've ridden many long distance rides with no fear. I'm using Panaracer Pacela PT's on that one, thin walled tires with a wire bead - folding tires probably wouldn't hold. On the other hand I had a set of hookless rims on a 1974 Motobecane that were original - but those things were ridiculous, the only tire that worked was a Kenda - the thick sidewalls helped. Any others would blow off the rims at around 60lbs, I never got close to usable riding pressure.

 

[Brutuskend]

Your straight sided rims are not for tubular tires! You can use hook bead tire if you really want, but not a recommended combo.

There are basically four rim types-

Tubular
Straight Sided
Hook Bead
Tubless (very modern)

IMHO-

If you plan on riding this bike more than around the block a few times a year, I'd go new but sorta vintage looking rims and new tires. Velocity makes quite a few rims that sorta fit the bill. Velo Orange has a few good vintage options. Some Mavic rims are good too, but most have machined sidewalls.

Straight sided rims are terrible, there’s a reason they were around a short time and why no one manufactures them today. Getting the bead to evenly seat can be a nightmare. Every time you tire deflates you have to reseat. Sometimes it goes well, but more often it’s a pita.


Tubulars days of glory are looong gone and are a waste of time.

Cut your loss on those rims, find 27 or 700c hook bead rims and go that route. Also remember spoke hole count! 36H isn't an option for all rim types!

Fun world your jumping into right?[/QUOTE

Your straight sided rims are not for tubular tires! You can use hook bead tire if you really want, but not a recommended combo.

There are basically four rim types-

Tubular
Straight Sided
Hook Bead
Tubless (very modern)

IMHO-

If you plan on riding this bike more than around the block a few times a year, I'd go new but sorta vintage looking rims and new tires. Velocity makes quite a few rims that sorta fit the bill. Velo Orange has a few good vintage options. Some Mavic rims are good too, but most have machined sidewalls.

Straight sided rims are terrible, there’s a reason they were around a short time and why no one manufactures them today. Getting the bead to evenly seat can be a nightmare. Every time you tire deflates you have to reseat. Sometimes it goes well, but more often it’s a pita.


Tubulars days of glory are looong gone and are a waste of time.

Cut your loss on those rims, find 27 or 700c hook bead rims and go that route. Also remember spoke hole count! 36H isn't an option for all rim types!

Fun world your jumping into right?

True that. When I first built up my Bruce Gordon I was running 70's era high flange Dura Ace hubs and sew-ups. Until I got my first flat. I laced up some early Velocity clinchers and never looked back. Sew-up give a nice ride, but with modern foldable tires and latex tubes or greenlite tubes you get a very comparable ride with out the hassle of sew-ups. If you plan on hanging the bike up and showing it off with the All Stock label, then I would say, by all means track down some original rims and tubular tires. But if you plan on riding it very much at all , I say, get a nice set of clinchers and you will be much happier down the road when you get the inevitable flat. Lace up some clinchers, alloy nipples, foldable tires and latex / greenlite tubes and ride that sucker! [/QUOTE

One other down side of sew-ups. It isn't unheard of for glue to heat up especially during long descents , and come flying off of a tubular tire, catch you in the face, and spoil you whole ride!

 

[GiovanniLiCalsi]

Tubulars days of glory are looong gone and are a waste of time?
Single-tube tires are still used on carbon fiber bicycle rims. They are feather light and perform very well.
The new tires are made much better and have puncture proof liners, built in.
I used Campionato Del Mundo single-tube tires, in the 1970’s. I never had a flat, even then.

 

[Stuckbolt]

The ability to hold a tire can vary from one model of hookless rim to the next and the tires used. I have a set of hookless 27" Weinmanns that look to be the same model as yours on my '72 Bottecchia Professional. Those hold tires up to 95lbs pressure with no issues and I've ridden many long distance rides with no fear. I'm using Panaracer Pacela PT's on that one, thin walled tires with a wire bead - folding tires probably wouldn't hold. On the other hand I had a set of hookless rims on a 1974 Motobecane that were original - but those things were ridiculous, the only tire that worked was a Kenda - the thick sidewalls helped. Any others would blow off the rims at around 60lbs, I never got close to usable riding pressure.

Thank you for your example. I really appreciate your reply.

 

[Eric Amlie]

Are there 1971 Paramount owners out there that believe their rims are original, that can kindly confirm if the pair of 27" Weinmann's I purchased match their set?

I have a 1971 Paramount with these rims that I'm pretty sure are original to the bike. BUT, my bike is the P15-9 touring model. Yours is the P13-9 racing model. I don't know what your bike would have been equipped with originally. I'm running Panaracer Pasela 27 x 1 1/8 tires at 90 psi with no problems.
Attached are a couple of images of Weinmann rim literature to help you understand the difference between the clincher & tubular(sew-up) rim profiles.

 

[Stuckbolt]

Thank your confirmation of this rim being used on your 71 P15-9. It is fantastic to see the Weinmann catalog images too. Based on the drawing, my rims are the 256 sport with dimpled, angled piecing. I have no idea what purpose the dimples have (maybe extra support?) or how this may impact the spoke measurement that I need to define. But this is a great start! Now I know how to describe what I have: Weinmann Alesa 256 with dimpled, angled piercing!

 

[Stuckbolt]

Thinking further on this, the P13-9 tire/rim options are described below and it makes me think the P13-9 standard offering was the 294 Hollow and optional rim was the 270 wood filled.

When I check the same source for your P15-9 (http://www.schwinnbikeforum.com/SLDB/Details/dtail_7074.htm#1971) it shows the standard tire was wired on (meaning the 256?)

If you think that is correct, then my options would be to run these rims with a wired - on tire like the P15-9's had as standard equipment, OR find a pair of 294 or 270's and match them up with sew on tires. The latter option seems to be the correct for a truly stock restoration.