1971 Paramount P13-9 wheel restoration questions

[Brutuskend]

Wow! sounds like you have a really nice bike. Your comment makes me think there may be a special design feature for a rim to be a sew up rim. If you know that to be true, please look at my photos to tell me if my rims are limited to sew up tires. I want to keep this bike as original as possible, so if these are the correct rims for a 71 P13-9 (with raised bumps at each spoke hole) then I want to use them. From there, I will need to determine what tires I can ride. The tire criteria is to match the original look to the Clementi 50's as close as possible. Hopefully someone out there has done this before!
As far as the Brooks, I am a big fan but I will keep the Utica as it was the optional seat for this model.

Your rims are clincher rims. Sew-up / tubular rims are much thicker top to bottom and the tire side of the rim has more of a gradual slope from side to side. I'll find some cross section pics and post them...

clincher

sew-up

 

[GiovanniLiCalsi]

Here are the Fiamme rims, throughout the years. I use red label and yellow (not shown) label rims. Yellow is lighter, for the front wheel.

 

[GiovanniLiCalsi]

Fiamme profiles

 

[fat tire trader]

Most everything that everyone has said is correct. A couple of the above comments, I would ignore.
It is the correct original saddle..
27" tires are easy to get. I like the Panaracer Paselas.
Unlike today, in the early 70s, the clincher tires that were available were not very good. In 71, most serious cyclists rode see ups.
The rims that you show do not have the hook on the edge of the rim like the modern ones do. If you decide to use them, because of the smooth inner side of the rim, you need to run lower pressure or the tire will come off.
Whether you decide to use clincher or sewup rims/tires depends upon how you want to use your bike and how much you want to spend.
Most people decide to use clinchers, they are a lot easier to fix flats on the side of the road. There is a learning curve with sewups, they need to be glued on. I tend to leave my bikes they way they were when I got them. If they come to me with sewups, I keep using sewups, but not Michelins. If they come with clinchers, they stay clinchers.
It is likely, that since your bike has newer clincher rims, that your bike originally had sewups and the previous owner decided to switch.
Another thing to consider is your brake reach, 27" rims are a little taller than sewups which are a metric size 700c. You did not state whether the rims that came with your bike are 700 or 27.
Schwinn made the Paramount frames to accommodate either size, but you might need different brakes or drop bolts to accommodate the different rims.
Based upon your comments, I recommend leaving the newer rims on the bike and get new tires. As far as clincher rims are concerned, the Mavic rims that you have are better than what was available in the early 70s.
Whatever you do, I hope you have fun.
Happy Trails,
Chris

 

[PfishB]

Congrats and welcome to the club. My 1970 P13-9 came to me with 27" Rigida alloy clinchers, replaced sometime after it was ordered as the provinence report from Waterford showed it was spec'ed with sew-up tires. I had issues with the Rigidas so eventually replaced with H+Son TB14 700c's, which both look and ride great. I generally aim for original or period gear but if I can't swing either I'll go for the correct look and the TB14's fill the bill.

For grins, here's the 1970 customer order form with options and pricing. Likely most if not all of that for the P13 carried over into 1971.

 

[vincev]

My Paramount came with sew ons.I did replace with sew ons but the bike shop that put them on did a bad job.I ended swapping the wheels off another Paramount I sold.clinchers for me.........

 

[Stuckbolt]

This is great information, thank you for the replies. Now I have a better understanding of my options. In summary, the 27" Weinmann rims I have purchased have a smooth inner edge (no hook) so they fit the description of the original sew up design that would have been originally issued with this bike. If I use these rims, hubs and chrome spokes, I will have a stock restoration.

I have a couple options for tires on these rims: If I choose sew up tires, I risk sourcing problems, the install learning curve and difficult road side repairs. If I put modern 27" clincher tires on these rims, I would need to run lower pressure because there is no hook on the inner side wall to hold the tire in place.

I can't help feeling a little concerned about the thought of blowing a tire off the rim. Is it a common practice to do this? Is 75 - 80 pounds appropriate to stay on the safe side? This is the occasional rider at best. Not my primary rider.

If the feedback is running clincher tires on a sew up design rim design is "unsafe at any speed" then the final option is to do what vincev did and get a stock appearance clincher rim with clinchers. Bottom line is I really want to get this as stock as possible and achieve the look that vincev has - bright metal rims with chrome spokes on Silver Mist paint.

 

[Alan Brase]

Are you sure?

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While that is a nice Brooks saddle is is nowhere close to the BrooksPro that could have come standard on his bike, which would have had normal small head copper rivets and NOT had the "Pre-softened" logo. Brooks as fitted to Paramounts alledgedly WERE presoftened in Chicago with some machine that rolled repeatedly on them some period of time. (I believe I once saw a picture of said machine and I think it had aluminum roller and ran on air. I do not fully trust my memory on this ,tho.) The bike quite possibly came with the Unicanitor that is on it. Saddles are very much subjective. If you end up riding it a lot, you night want to try a Brooks, but it would not be my first concern.

 

[Brutuskend]

While that is a nice Brooks saddle is is nowhere close to the BrooksPro that could have come standard on his bike, which would have had normal small head copper rivets and NOT had the "Pre-softened" logo. Brooks as fitted to Paramounts alledgedly WERE presoftened in Chicago with some machine that rolled repeatedly on them some period of time. (I believe I once saw a picture of said machine and I think it had aluminum roller and ran on air. I do not fully trust my memory on this ,tho.) The bike quite possibly came with the Unicanitor that is on it. Saddles are very much subjective. If you end up riding it a lot, you night want to try a Brooks, but it would not be my first concern.

There are actually 2 saddles shown in those pics and yes, I know they are both newer than what would have, or could have come on a 1971 bike.

 

[fattyre]

Your straight sided rims are not for tubular tires! You can use hook bead tire if you really want, but not a recommended combo.

There are basically four rim types-

Tubular
Straight Sided
Hook Bead
Tubless (very modern)

IMHO-

If you plan on riding this bike more than around the block a few times a year, I'd go new but sorta vintage looking rims and new tires. Velocity makes quite a few rims that sorta fit the bill. Velo Orange has a few good vintage options. Some Mavic rims are good too, but most have machined sidewalls.

Straight sided rims are terrible, there’s a reason they were around a short time and why no one manufactures them today. Getting the bead to evenly seat can be a nightmare. Every time you tire deflates you have to reseat. Sometimes it goes well, but more often it’s a pita.


Tubulars days of glory are looong gone and are a waste of time.

Cut your loss on those rims, find 27 or 700c hook bead rims and go that route. Also remember spoke hole count! 36H isn't an option for all rim types!

Fun world your jumping into right?