1973 raleigh record ace?


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juvela

I live for the CABE
Aug 2, 2014
1,041
1,521
Playa del Rey, United States
#41
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If my machine would definitely replace at least lower stack.

Upper stack serves mainly as a guide and does not receive same level of abuse as lower.

You of course have same difficulty with ST as with RRA in that steerer likely too short to go up in quality with something period correct. :worried:

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slowride

Finally riding a big boys bike
Nov 8, 2017
132
183
Detroit, MI, United States
#42
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If my machine would definitely replace at least lower stack.

Upper stack serves mainly as a guide and does not receive same level of abuse as lower.

You of course have same difficulty with ST as with RRA in that steerer likely too short to go up in quality with something period correct. :worried:

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Yes , I agree need to replace lower stack Brampton on ST. What I am thinking is since lower stack races are of course not threaded maybe I can use races from a Grand Prix , Super Course or actually any raleigh 1” headset? (I read GP, SC, and Nottingham bike headsets are 27mm fork crown race and frame cup o.d. Is 30.0mm and threaded portions 26tpi. ISO frame cup o.d. Is 30.2mm threaded portions 24tpi. Regarding frame cups, does this 0.2mm difference matter you think?
 
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bulldog1935

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jan 21, 2013
3,766
5,529
Bulverde, TX
#43
I saw some Suntour RDs of the 70s and a FD that was all aluminum except steel cage but did not buy as not familiar; which ones are the best of that era?
Cyclone was introduced in '75 and has the greatest fan club - you actually found many of these replacing Campy in the late '70s -
- they were the badge of a smart bike owner. Superbe was a beefier version introduced as the top-line SunTour in '77.
8QZZu2u.jpg

SunTour V was introduced in 1970
Suntour V-Luxe was introduced in 1973
Motobecane was the first European maker to embrace them - from 1971 used on every bike in their line that wasn't equipped with either Campy or Jubilee.
The SunTour Vx in 1977 was adopted on every Raleigh that wasn't equipped with Campy.
Z6sBZPg.jpg

Shimano switched from Campy copy to SunTour copy in 1983 (the year before SunTour patent expired).
Every RD after indexing requires long-cable-pull shifters (indexing is all in the shifters, but you have to match cable pull) - every RD above is happy with short-pull shifters, and they're all interchangeable.
SRAM began in 1987 with their SunTour copy
Every RD Campy has made since 1988 is a SunTour copy.
2HYt08Y.jpg

Today Microshift builds a very nice SunTour copy and brands their RD for Sun XCD.
Every RD made today is a SunTour copy.
Lou and Tad have putzed around in period Simplex and Huret vowing to keep their bikes catalog correct, period Shimano, period Campy, thrown up their hands and switched to SunTour.
As far as bike-boom FDs, I'm running Shimano 600, SunTour Cyclone and Campy, and like them all - the main thing is getting top/bottom pull correct for your cable route.
Lou had fits with a high-grade Simplex FD.
 
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juvela

I live for the CABE
Aug 2, 2014
1,041
1,521
Playa del Rey, United States
#44
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The Raleigh HS employed on SC and below is of a U-race design.

Races are not rectified.

U-race design has less forgiveness for any slight misalignment than cup and cone designs.

One set which would be period correct, plausible, quality with rectified races and which would fit is the Stronglight P3. It has a stack height of 34.0mm. Since both the RRA and ST have Stronglight chainsets a Stronglight headset would make a plausible companion.

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slowride

Finally riding a big boys bike
Nov 8, 2017
132
183
Detroit, MI, United States
#45
Regarding headset for Raleigh RRA as a temp solution to get on road , I went ahead and purchased Tange Levin CDS chrome with 33.3mm stack 26.4 crown race 30.2mm frame cup O.D. so I guess I’ll need 2mm of washers... it’s mid level not period but at least will be fully functional. This will allow me to take my time to find these stonglight p3 or Brampton headsets. I think I’m going to go to Memory Lane bike meet in Grand Rapids,Ohio and classic bike meet in Ann Arbor later this month and have a look.

FEC2A763-0CA4-4FB2-B48E-810E189AEE09.gif
 
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slowride

Finally riding a big boys bike
Nov 8, 2017
132
183
Detroit, MI, United States
#46
Cyclone was introduced in '75 and has the greatest fan club - you actually found many of these replacing Campy in the late '70s -
- they were the badge of a smart bike owner.
View attachment 974273
SunTour V was introduced in 1970
Suntour V-Luxe was introduced in 1973
Motobecane was the first European maker to embrace them - from 1971 used on every bike in their line that wasn't equipped with either Campy or Jubilee.
The SunTour Vx in 1977 was adopted on every Raleigh that wasn't equipped with Campy.
View attachment 974274
Shimano switched from Campy copy to SunTour copy in 1983 (the year before SunTour patent expired).
Every RD after indexing requires long-cable-pull shifters - every RD above is happy with short-pull shifters, and they're all interchangeable.
SRAM began in 1987 with their SunTour copy
Every RD Campy has made since 1988 is a SunTour copy.
View attachment 974275
Today Microshift builds a very nice SunTour copy and brands their RD for Sun XCD.
Every RD made today is a SunTour copy.
Lou and Tad have putzed around in period Simplex and Huret vowing to keep their bikes catalog correct, period Shimano, period Campy, thrown up their hands and switched to SunTour.
Thank you for all the Suntour RD history! I see there was cyclone short cage and cyclone long cage ..and also cyclone gt? What is gt? How about front derailleur, anything interesting there?
I read Suntour demise partly dur to their strategy of pricing products at cost + rather than pricing at what market would bear (like Shimano )resulting in lower overall financial wherewithal to weather strong yen period in early eighties and starving their ability to reinvest in r&d (like Shimano did with index shifting derailleurs).
 

bulldog1935

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jan 21, 2013
3,766
5,529
Bulverde, TX
#47
Short cage/long cage is completely about chain wrap requirement - how much extra chain length do you need your RD cage to carry - you only need long cage (GT) with triple crank and/or very big rear cogs (above 28t).
Campy only made one long-cage RD, the Rally (before 1988 when they added a long-cage Chorus), and Shimano 600 long-cage was a copy of the Campy Rally. (Tad replaced one of these with a VGT).

e.g, on two of my bikes I'm running TA cyclotouriste half-step + granny triples with 26T granny rings - only need these things for very long, steep climbs (there are some long 18-degree climbs in the TX hill country) - and they're also great to leave the pavement on single-track.

SunTour disappeared because their indexing was terrible, and Shimano indexing from '85 will accept brand new Shimano 10-speed RDs today. Indexing is never needed with 8 and fewer rear cogs.
SunTour freewheels are also still the best, and there are many people who rebuild them for you. It's also been argued that before indexing, SunTour would have done better by pricing their derailleurs higher, to match their quality and create a prestige image - their old parts have it today. I have a NOS SunTour Blue Line from c. 1980 stashed away, and it's really quite a handsome RD.

I'm fond of Shimano FD because they designed lift into their cages (still do), but still love both my Campy and SunTour FDs - they work great.
 
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