wrongway
I live for the CABE
What kind of bike is this? That is.....wow!
When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
26" vs 27" Wheels
- Thread starter wrongway
- Start date
bulldog1935
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
I wish I knew, stumbled on it looking for a fat 650b tire - I'll go hunting again - nice thing about The CABE, it permanently archives photos used in your posts.
I'll be back...
Found a later version elsewhere
Sauvage Lejeune Campeur Bike
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/39151498@N07/sets/72157626711955076/
found it on my google history, but the link didn't bring up the photo - it's somewhere on this bikeforums thread
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/612294-show-your-french-bikes-20.html
but clearly, this bike below is older than the 1960 example, must be 30s-40s
double-cable-pull derailleurs, and chainstay-mounted RD, on a frame braze-on
I think that's a dust cover over the cottered steel Stronglight crank
totally a holy grail dream bike (and my size)
maybe @juvela can identify and date this drivetrain - I couldn't find it on Disraeli Gears, including scanning through their documents, but similar derailleurs are late 30s
Last edited:
bulldog1935
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
that's what I'm asking - can you date it?
Maybe this is it - beginning 1938
http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Nivex_derailleurs.html
here we go, positive ID on velobase, no dates - Nivex flanged lower pulley
ok, and same derailleur on this '62 Singer, so maybe that is the '60 Savage Lejuene Campeur
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/half-a-century-old-and-still-going-strong/
Maybe this is it - beginning 1938
http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Nivex_derailleurs.html
here we go, positive ID on velobase, no dates - Nivex flanged lower pulley
ok, and same derailleur on this '62 Singer, so maybe that is the '60 Savage Lejuene Campeur
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/half-a-century-old-and-still-going-strong/
Last edited:
rhm
Look Ma, No Hands!
I'm no expert on Nivex derailleurs, have never seen one. From my reading I gather the company went under, and Alex Singer bought up the remaining stock, which was mostly unassembled parts. They had some of the steel bits chromed, and had the missing parts made, and continued to sell the derailleurs into the 1960's.
I can't quite read the stamps on the saddle, but it looks like an early 1960's Idéale 42. I don't see anything to suggest a date before 1960, but what do I know. Nivex isn't the only thing I'm not an expert on....
I can't quite read the stamps on the saddle, but it looks like an early 1960's Idéale 42. I don't see anything to suggest a date before 1960, but what do I know. Nivex isn't the only thing I'm not an expert on....
juvela
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
-----
Note on Sauvage name -
while the French word sauvage and the English one savage enjoy a common latin root (silvaticus) their respective meanings are somewhat different.
sauvage intends "wild" in the sense of "the wild geese" or having to do with being in a state of nature. it carries not the English savage suggestion of brutish/violent.
readers who enjoyed the wonderful Sauvage Lejeune gallery posted by bulldog1935 above may have noticed that despite the scores of excellent images it contains no good look at he machine's nameplate is presented. suspect this may have been intentional by poster as the emblem is somewhat "politically incorrect"...
---
reportedly, use of the Sauvage name ended in 1969 with machines produced thereafter badged simply as Lejeune.
-----
Note on Sauvage name -
while the French word sauvage and the English one savage enjoy a common latin root (silvaticus) their respective meanings are somewhat different.
sauvage intends "wild" in the sense of "the wild geese" or having to do with being in a state of nature. it carries not the English savage suggestion of brutish/violent.
readers who enjoyed the wonderful Sauvage Lejeune gallery posted by bulldog1935 above may have noticed that despite the scores of excellent images it contains no good look at he machine's nameplate is presented. suspect this may have been intentional by poster as the emblem is somewhat "politically incorrect"...
---
reportedly, use of the Sauvage name ended in 1969 with machines produced thereafter badged simply as Lejeune.
-----
wrongway
I live for the CABE
harpon
Finally riding a big boys bike
I just reread this thread and the aforementioned blogs in the post above, which I find are pure B.S. All the "myths" of Bicycling Quarterly (is it?) are pretty much bed rock cycling principle and knowledge and maybe a "sell gasoline" person or self-ordained theorist has come in the door. The "testing" described in the "rolling tests" are totally undefined, as to form and parameters- there are NO control tests described or any real data given, and typical of the information highway being turned into the misinformation highway by sheer force of internet wind. In fact the weight of tires is a big factor and "racer wisdom" has been formed by years and decades of controlled testing- a same rider doing the same kinds of things in the most extreme of conditions. That's why back in the day we'd take care to have- if we could- 220 gram Clement Setas on our rims if we were going into a fast tight criterium course with a relatively smooth road surface, to get the best roll and the constant best accelerating blast out of every corner. If it was a road course or longer not so cornered criterium, the usual standard was a 250 gram seta sew up- not as fast but more reliable. Probably 75 per cent of racers in the days when everyone would line up on full-campy bikes had 250 silks on their rims- maybe in Europe they'd go a little heavier, and with rougher roads.
Sew ups were NEVER reliable though and I was glad to see light and narrow 700c come along- a format conceived in size to replace sew ups of the day without altering tire size. I suffered from some back pains in my later years and I tried to accept some of the "blog theory" I think even when I took to sporting even heavier Clement 290 gram setas in open and flatter road races, and then trying to get some roll back by "bombing" them with slightly more pressure. In fact. the heavier the flimsy silk sew up, the more reliable it indeed was- 250 more than 220 gram and 290 even more so- all still a crapshoot though. I rode 14 seasons on sew-up tires and rims- almost all my training as well, and it was an extreme pleasure when it was finally over to have some 700 clinchers on I could assume would probably not puncture in the first 25 miles like sew-ups sometimes did. Do NOT knock "racer wisdom" if you haven'
acquired it skidding some road rash into your butt, when yours, or someone else's sew-up tire blew in the middle of a turn!
Yet at almost any level I've ever ridden- more narrow and lighter tires ALWAYS roll better- 1 1/8" rolled better than 1 1/4" 27 inch tires and I even went to 27 x 1 3/8 tires on the gas bikes and could tell the difference both pedaling and with the China Girl. and the same now holds true of most 700 tires I've tried (which can have great discrepancies while still claiming the same widths, yet that's another issue) No- there's plenty of multi-use needs for using different tires of different widths and weights and profiles- but I've always found that widening things always reduces the roll, given the same tire pressure.
One typical 250 seta blow out and you're discovered beneath the truck.
Sew ups were NEVER reliable though and I was glad to see light and narrow 700c come along- a format conceived in size to replace sew ups of the day without altering tire size. I suffered from some back pains in my later years and I tried to accept some of the "blog theory" I think even when I took to sporting even heavier Clement 290 gram setas in open and flatter road races, and then trying to get some roll back by "bombing" them with slightly more pressure. In fact. the heavier the flimsy silk sew up, the more reliable it indeed was- 250 more than 220 gram and 290 even more so- all still a crapshoot though. I rode 14 seasons on sew-up tires and rims- almost all my training as well, and it was an extreme pleasure when it was finally over to have some 700 clinchers on I could assume would probably not puncture in the first 25 miles like sew-ups sometimes did. Do NOT knock "racer wisdom" if you haven'
acquired it skidding some road rash into your butt, when yours, or someone else's sew-up tire blew in the middle of a turn!
Yet at almost any level I've ever ridden- more narrow and lighter tires ALWAYS roll better- 1 1/8" rolled better than 1 1/4" 27 inch tires and I even went to 27 x 1 3/8 tires on the gas bikes and could tell the difference both pedaling and with the China Girl. and the same now holds true of most 700 tires I've tried (which can have great discrepancies while still claiming the same widths, yet that's another issue) No- there's plenty of multi-use needs for using different tires of different widths and weights and profiles- but I've always found that widening things always reduces the roll, given the same tire pressure.
One typical 250 seta blow out and you're discovered beneath the truck.
Last edited:
bulldog1935
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
read it, but maybe didn't understand it, and maybe no experience with quality tires to compare.
There's a whole 'nother world out there. The reason to ride 700c is to get the quality tire options, which have never been available in 27x.
"I tried tubulars once - Vittoria Rallyes" - actually, he didn't - those might as well be solid rubber. The reason they call these vulcanized sew-up "training tires" is low cost and racking up miles where speed and seconds advantage is not an issue. All Actual Professional Racers today and yesterday ride Dugast tubulars (hand-glued over linen casings), to the point they buy Dugast tires at the event and paste their sponsor's labels over the Dugast ink. Wannabe racers confuse fast with hard tire chatter - we've been over that. The one place small contact patch makes a difference is on a perfectly smooth track, because there are no bumps like with real-life pavement.
(the 27 on the sidewall is mm width - this is a cobblestone tubular).
Also note no professional racers have ever ridden clinchers (or even most amateurs) - clinchers came about for convenience of changing tires, throwing out performance for convenience. The good thing for the rest of us, over the last 10 years, they've formulated good clinchers that give us back Most of the qualities of tubulars, including hand-glued construction using quality materials. I'll add again about Compass, Jan Heine has been through the effort working with Panaracer to develop a casing for a vulcanized tire that's almost as good as hand-glued.
The thing is, they've done the dyno tests to prove actual rolling resistance over seat of pants. The one place narrow tires improve is less aerodynamic drag. Any time acceleration is involved (climbing by definition is accelerating against gravity) lighter weight is always more efficient, and you feel the difference in rotational energy.
The city/touring tire mentality for flat resistance is also backwards - soft thin tires shed flint and glass shards, while hard thick rubber plants them and eventually works them into the tube. The people who flat on group rides are always on gatorskins. Actual touring under load, tandems, etc., you do need heavy body tires to support the load.
The best way to get a blow-out is to over-pressure a clincher bead and add the centrifugal loads of going really fast downhill. The other way is too-low pressure, so that you get a pinch flat from the bead moving on sharp bumps (e.g. railroad track). Another reason Berto chart is a good starting point - make sure you have enough pressure.
There's a whole 'nother world out there. The reason to ride 700c is to get the quality tire options, which have never been available in 27x.
"I tried tubulars once - Vittoria Rallyes" - actually, he didn't - those might as well be solid rubber. The reason they call these vulcanized sew-up "training tires" is low cost and racking up miles where speed and seconds advantage is not an issue. All Actual Professional Racers today and yesterday ride Dugast tubulars (hand-glued over linen casings), to the point they buy Dugast tires at the event and paste their sponsor's labels over the Dugast ink. Wannabe racers confuse fast with hard tire chatter - we've been over that. The one place small contact patch makes a difference is on a perfectly smooth track, because there are no bumps like with real-life pavement.
(the 27 on the sidewall is mm width - this is a cobblestone tubular).
Also note no professional racers have ever ridden clinchers (or even most amateurs) - clinchers came about for convenience of changing tires, throwing out performance for convenience. The good thing for the rest of us, over the last 10 years, they've formulated good clinchers that give us back Most of the qualities of tubulars, including hand-glued construction using quality materials. I'll add again about Compass, Jan Heine has been through the effort working with Panaracer to develop a casing for a vulcanized tire that's almost as good as hand-glued.
The thing is, they've done the dyno tests to prove actual rolling resistance over seat of pants. The one place narrow tires improve is less aerodynamic drag. Any time acceleration is involved (climbing by definition is accelerating against gravity) lighter weight is always more efficient, and you feel the difference in rotational energy.
The city/touring tire mentality for flat resistance is also backwards - soft thin tires shed flint and glass shards, while hard thick rubber plants them and eventually works them into the tube. The people who flat on group rides are always on gatorskins. Actual touring under load, tandems, etc., you do need heavy body tires to support the load.
The best way to get a blow-out is to over-pressure a clincher bead and add the centrifugal loads of going really fast downhill. The other way is too-low pressure, so that you get a pinch flat from the bead moving on sharp bumps (e.g. railroad track). Another reason Berto chart is a good starting point - make sure you have enough pressure.
Last edited:
