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41 deluxe lightweight

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Hi @Pedals Past it looks like a prewar New World to me. It has to be from 1940 or after because it has rear drop outs and not fork ends. You are right that it has some deluxe features and there were many options available for this bike. I have not seen a locking front fork on many (any?) and the three piece crank with AS&Co chain ring is nicer than the usual one piece. The hub brakes are also an upgrade. The racer pedals are sweet too but may not have been stock. The rear mudguard has been replaced with a post war one. The mudguards on prewar and wartime New Worlds are attached with the wire stays like on your front mudguard. The bar stays started being used around the end of the war.

We have been collecting info on these bikes in the Wartime New World thread. I would love to add this nice example to our list. Can you take a pic of the serial number on the bottom of the bottom bracket? It will help us get a better idea of the year and show if the bottom bracket was electro-forged which started in 1942.

My 1941 coaster New World is fast and quiet. You should be able to fly on these bikes. If you are having trouble pedaling, there is something wrong for sure. New tires are Kenda K23 and the only choice available for these S-6 rims. These are great bikes and yours should clean up really nicely. I ride mine a few times a week and love it.

Thanks for the heads up @Miyata FL. !
 
Hi @Pedals Past it looks like a prewar New World to me. It has to be from 1940 or after because it has rear drop outs and not fork ends. You are right that it has some deluxe features and there were many options available for this bike. I have not seen a locking front fork on many (any?) and the three piece crank with AS&Co chain ring is nicer than the usual one piece. The hub brakes are also an upgrade. The racer pedals are sweet too but may not have been stock. The rear mudguard has been replaced with a post war one. The mudguards on prewar and wartime New Worlds are attached with the wire stays like on your front mudguard. The bar stays started being used around the end of the war.

We have been collecting info on these bikes in the Wartime New World thread. I would love to add this nice example to our list. Can you take a pic of the serial number on the bottom of the bottom bracket? It will help us get a better idea of the year and show if the bottom bracket was electro-forged which started in 1942.

My 1941 coaster New World is fast and quiet. You should be able to fly on these bikes. If you are having trouble pedaling, there is something wrong for sure. New tires are Kenda K23 and the only choice available for these S-6 rims. These are great bikes and yours should clean up really nicely. I ride mine a few times a week and love it.

Thanks for the heads up @Miyata FL. !
The original tires are fine hardly any cracking i get u a photo of serial number and the blue bike i believe to be the first year 1939 which has same chain ring with caliper brakes, same pedals different seat i believe it is Brooks but is the same style.

On this bike it would be hard to believe the rear fender being changed it matches perfectly with the same aging of the paint maybe like you said right during the transition of the bikes.

thanks for the info
 
Thanks Jerry. I look forward to seeing the pics of both bikes.

About the rear mudguard. It’s clear it’s not original. Someone had to modify it to fit the bike. They put another set of mounting tab holes to make it work. You can see the.modification in these pics. There isn’t supposed to be two sets of holes and the tab should be painted the same color as the bike Like the front guard tab.

1598359869011.jpeg

9a5c9abb-af88-4a42-b12b-d06192397fc2-jpeg.jpg
 
A few changes made, but still pretty good for its age. The fork pushed back slightly in one of the pictures, but even if that's so, it would be fixable with some measuring and the frame/fork arm tool. The pedals look like excellent vintage "lightweight" pedals. The drum brakes are a nice little addition. It's good you found it relatively intact because these often turn up parted out when they have desirable parts that can be used on balloon tire collectors' bikes (the brake handles and drums are good examples).
 
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1939 Schwinn Touring Pedal much like this blocked racing style Torrington Pedal as a replacement on my bike never saw one before but never really looked at lightweights before, my 1940 Paramount has racing pedals without blocks have to look and see if they are Torrington
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1939 Paramount Pedals with replaceable blocks -Does any one have a set of these with Schwinn logo in block?

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1940 wire fender brace in rear ? States new style mud guards The 39 clearly shows wire stay attached on the rear frame as this shows wire brace attached to or is it near axle bolt ? like my marroon bike is to the acle bolt but frame has no marking for a wore brace above or near the drop out. My blue 39 i believe wire stay is to frame , they must have changed the end mounting hole in 1940 to be wire?

first year stating Torrington Pedal assuming an 8 ......


1940-41 Continental rear fork ends (does this mean just open end release or the drop out like a post wat schwinn or my bike ) wire fender brace

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1942 shows bike with both seat options and the brace to axle bolt ? also doesnt appear to be like 39 wire style

States illistrated with no changes, so did they black out the chrome no where from 39-42 does it state anything about chrome? My other question being if it was available in three sizes wouldnt the fender mount be in a different spot to adjust for tge frame difference? If so would they go to trouble to make three fenders or just have the option of two holes? Ran out and used what they had punched more holes?

My experience and conclusion over 39 years is these bike builders especially as it got close to/during war used what was available the day they assembled the bikes. Now knowing that Schwinn was quite particular with their product that has not been so apparant. However looking at this literature used in Hurd and Gordon’s Pre war book it states a English style in 1940 and a New World and Paramount Touring lightweight style there after? So the question being were these fenders Schwinn made or European out sourced on some parts? Were there differences in the two styles? Looking at front fenders with the wing it appears to replicate the European model?

I am not trying to be argumentative i see what you mean about the fender but that fender even five years newer if it was changed after the war would not match this patina and color perfect from my experience and I am one of tge guys accused in this hobby of and admitting to taking more tgan one same color original paint bikes and constructing a complete bike. I am not a painter and have only tried to patina paint one part in 30 years and tgat was a Colson Aristicrat rack that waa made for a bike and yes some really experienced guys couldnt tell the difference but this bike I would have never bought unless I had to to acquire back my okd bikes or something I wanted. Maybe this bike is a bastard built factory bike like I believe was done when is a good question not really studing what/how bikes during war were put together. Shame on me because I always buy on visual what turns my clock more so than technically history based even though i consider myself a history student.

I will get more photos and serial numbers of the two bikes for you ..... how this inspired interest I fully respect ..... but by study this is what your knowledge has got me to review how i came about originally trying to fugure out what I had. Thanks alot this is highly interesting now since I also have alot of ww2 items other than bikes and was an administrator at the Yountville Vetrens home museum.

As the pandemic started I wanted the museum to purchase that 1945 Columbia military bike that was for sale to include but its closed for Covid19 my biggest supporting donor passed away now so if this bike coukd be confirmed a war time bike I will donate it. I really appreciate your help.

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A few changes made, but still pretty good for its age. The fork pushed back slightly in one of the pictures, but even if that's so, it would be fixable with some measuring and the frame/fork arm tool. The pedals look like excellent vintage "lightweight" pedals. The drum brakes are a nice little addition. It's good you found it relatively intact because these often turn up parted out when they have desirable parts that can be used on balloon tire collectors' bikes (the brake handles and drums are good examples).

40/41 Autocycle deluxe material in drums cables and handles valued between $900-$1200 according to some very active high end collectors who have already inquired the chain guard looks aerocycle and they are after that too. I dont part bikes i might build some up but i sell them if not complete as is your conscience can be tge guide....

i dont think the fork is bent might be a camera illusion, the big questions for me were silver paint and no chrome evidence under it on bars and neck wheels are silver too but i havent scratched around or cleaned anything i just love its look especially with spider webs, the seat & pedals but I believe they are correct and now rear fender/brace question alittle mixed and matched however braces are riveted to fender, the locking fork with original key tells me this bike was highly valued by its owner.

Maybe since you had to custom order lock and brakes they ordered those pedals and seat the fender is a mystery
 
Jerry I’m not being argumentative either and you can believe what you want. You’ve clearly been doing this longer than I have, but of the 75 or so of these prewar and wartime New Worlds we’ve studied, none but the post war have been equipped with the flat bar mudguard stays. The extra holes and non painted mounting tab on your mudguard are a dead give away. Original bikes just don’t have those, even the war time ones. You can say a 5 year younger part would never look the same, but if the owner loved the bike so much that he kept good care of it for the first 20 years, differences in those similarly aged parts wouldn’t be so apparent with the aging all happening later in its life. Take a look at the 46 catalog and tell me what you think of the New World mudguard stays compared to the ones on your bike and let’s get a serial number and see where it fits in with the other bikes we’ve seen. I don’t mind being wrong. Just show me why.
 
The 1939 models had the rear facing fork slot and the fender stays were attached to the axle. Schwinn began their electro-forging on the new 1940 models when the new rear drop out fork end was first used and EF to the frame stays. The prewar drop outs did not have the accessory hole for attaching the fender stays or carriers, that came about post war. So these prewar lightweights all had fender stays attached to the axle. Now we need to clarify the type of fender stays/braces. @Miq There were flat bar braces and those were used prior to what people call rolled braces, but the are actually stamped in a semi-circle. These rolled/stamped braces came about after the flat bar braces in the last half of the 30's. Calling these post war type braces flat is misleading to many I'm sure since there were flat braces that came about on the very first bikes with fenders/mud guards.
 
Is it possible the fender is original but just that the mount is not? If you look at the two rivet holes, the front one is much larger and has the look like it gave out. The front hole is kind of irregular and does not have the depression ring like the rear hole. Wire braces replaced with slightly later ones. I wouldn't let that detract from the bike, it could just be an old field repair. This is a great find still.
 
@Miq There were flat bar braces and those were used prior to what people call rolled braces, but the are actually stamped in a semi-circle. These rolled/stamped braces came about after the flat bar braces in the last half of the 30's. Calling these post war type braces flat is misleading to many I'm sure since there were flat braces that came about on the very first bikes with fenders/mud guards.

Agreed. My naming convention is misleading.

1939 (Late 30's) Flat Stays that joined together before attaching the axle:
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1940 with what I call "wire" stays since they are made from thin round metal stock.
1940_schwinn_w3mfc New World Mens Sport Tourist.jpg


1942 Wartime Victory New World. Still round "wire" stays but now only 1 stay in the rear.
1942 Schwinn New World Maroon Fac. Options 1.JPG


1948 with what I am calling "Bar" stays in the chart. These look to me like they are the semi circular formed stays you are mentioning, but in this drawing they do not attach to the axle. There is a mount on the dropout.
1948_schwinn_W1M - New World Lightweight.jpg

Here's @schwinnlax 1946
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Is it possible the fender is original but just that the mount is not? If you look at the two rivet holes, the front one is much larger and has the look like it gave out. The front hole is kind of irregular and does not have the depression ring like the rear hole. Wire braces replaced with slightly later ones. I wouldn't let that detract from the bike, it could just be an old field repair. This is a great find still.
Could be @SirMike1983 and I totally agree that it really doesn't detract from how cool this bike is. The options on this bike are great and I love the way it looks. @Pedals Past is a lucky man. The "wire" braces break so incredibly easily at the rivet that I can see needing to change over to these modified 1946? stays to get the mudguard mounted again. In fact all of the "wire" stays on my 41 are broken and I have them held in place with 3D printed blocks inside the mudguards. (modern day field repair) :D

You are probably right. It's likely an original rear mudguard but the mounting was modified and stays replaced when it got damaged somehow. Thanks for filling in the missing pieces with me @GTs58 and @SirMike1983 !!
 
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