'61 Traveler 23" frame, should I jump at this?

[schwinnlax]

Found this on a nearby CL. I have not worked on a Bendix two speed red band hub before. I have worked on the manual two speed hub and the yellow band two speed hub. I found the manual hub much easier to work on. The automatic hub is much more complicated because of the "kick back" shifting mechanism. The challenge I had was not so much the complexity, but rather the subtle details, which are not in a manual. On the 2 speed yellow band, the exact position of the spring tabs was the key issue for the hub working properly. Only an experienced bike mechanic was able to tell me the proper setting. The red band has this same spring. The difference between red and yellow band hubs appears to be in the brake mechanism.

I've been looking for a 23 inch frame Traveler for a couple of years. They just don't show up. I'd prefer one from the early/mid '50s with the winged badges, but those are likely exceedingly rare. Next option would be one from '59-'62 with the fancy gold/red/white/blue decals (which the one on CL has). These decals really pop on a red bike. The one on CL is black. I'd prefer a 3-speed. So, even though this bike on CL is a black 2-speed, I'm thinking about picking it up because 23" Travelers are really scarce. The seller also has a three speed '63 Traveler, but by then Schwinn switched to the routine and not very interesting decal set. Also notice the bikes have a custom stem and incorrect seat. Both missing the saddle bag, '63 missing the light, '61 looks like light wiring is broken. Seller has each listed for $160.

Thoughts? I know I can overhaul the hub (very good local mechanic who is always helpful), but switching it for a 3 speed is not an option, since the fork/frame would not be equipped for caliper brakes.

 

[PCHiggin]

Looks like your search is over? Buy it. Bendix 2 speed kickbacks are easy to fix. Its usually old hard grease and the index spring being worn. You will need a lock nut removal tool. Check out this link....http://www.trfindley.com/pgbndxhbs.html
Heres a lock ring tool.........https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-Coa...4oAAOSwilBZmIBq:sc:USPSFirstClass!48316!US!-1

 

[Roger Henning]

This is my Traveler is basically the same bike but is a 1962 with a 3 speed. Very nice riding bikes. Roger

 

[schwinnlax]

This is my Traveler is basically the same bike but is a 1962 with a 3 speed. Very nice riding bikes. Roger

View attachment 1006555

Yes, I agree Roger, they are really nice bikes. The top Schwinn three speed from the early '50s through 1966. My main concern is the two speed hub. If that bike had a three speed hub, I would have bought it by now since 23" frame lightweights from that era are very scarce.

I had a '66 Panther that had the yellow band kickback. I put a lot of work into that and adjusted the shifting spring a couple of times. It worked fine, but in low gear, you could really "feel" the gears. In Normal, it was fine since no gears are engaged. It was a bike I thought about keeping, but I did not care for the feel of the hub when riding, so I sold that bike. It's amazing how much better the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub is. Maybe the reason Bendix stopped making the two speed hub in 1970?

 

[Oilit]

Found this on a nearby CL. I have not worked on a Bendix two speed red band hub before. I have worked on the manual two speed hub and the yellow band two speed hub. I found the manual hub much easier to work on. The automatic hub is much more complicated because of the "kick back" shifting mechanism. The challenge I had was not so much the complexity, but rather the subtle details, which are not in a manual. On the 2 speed yellow band, the exact position of the spring tabs was the key issue for the hub working properly. Only an experienced bike mechanic was able to tell me the proper setting. The red band has this same spring. The difference between red and yellow band hubs appears to be in the brake mechanism.

I've been looking for a 23 inch frame Traveler for a couple of years. They just don't show up. I'd prefer one from the early/mid '50s with the winged badges, but those are likely exceedingly rare. Next option would be one from '59-'62 with the fancy gold/red/white/blue decals (which the one on CL has). These decals really pop on a red bike. The one on CL is black. I'd prefer a 3-speed. So, even though this bike on CL is a black 2-speed, I'm thinking about picking it up because 23" Travelers are really scarce. The seller also has a three speed '63 Traveler, but by then Schwinn switched to the routine and not very interesting decal set. Also notice the bikes have a custom stem and incorrect seat. Both missing the saddle bag, '63 missing the light, '61 looks like light wiring is broken. Seller has each listed for $160.

Thoughts? I know I can overhaul the hub (very good local mechanic who is always helpful), but switching it for a 3 speed is not an option, since the fork/frame would not be equipped for caliper brakes.View attachment 1006531

View attachment 1006532

I can't tell from the picture, but I would check the frames before I made any decision. I've seen two speed lightweights that had the hole in the fork and rear bracket for calipers, Schwinn just left them off.

 

[SirMike1983]

The older of those two bikes may have fork and rear bridge holes to allow for calipers. The rear bridge looks like it will take a caliper. The front also looks like it from the pictures. But check to be sure. The older frame appears to be missing mount for the Sturmey Archer pulley boss so you'd need to mount a Sturmey clamp pulley. So I think you are correct that this is a factory 2-speed bike. If the caliper mount holes will work, then it's not too hard to convert it to a three speed. Getting a correct wheel set built is probably the only tricky part. If you don't mind stock steel rims, buying a second set of wheels is probably fastest.

The newer frame has the pulley mount and the calipers already. This appears to be a factory three speed. The saddle is from the 1970s and is not great on the newer bike, but passable. The older bike has the better saddle.

Both saddles are probably better than the stock Schwinn saddles, especially the leather Brooks B66 looking saddle on the older bike. A Brooks will blow away a stock Schwinn saddle any day on these. The stock two-tone Schwinn saddles from this era don't impress me.

The earlier 1950s bikes are a little bit better in terms of having a tubular fork rather than a flat blade fork. The tubular is a little more consistent in my experience, whereas the flat blade tends to have a little more flex when leaning sharply into a turn.

The stem set ups are weird. I'd look at replacing them with stock stems, or at least something that fits better.

Either bike looks good to me at $160. If you have a cushy bike fund, buy both and keep the one you like better. Sell the one you don't care for as much. They'd be borderline if 21 inch frames, but the 23 inch frames are much less common. If you buy both, pursue a package deal discount if you can get one.

They're generally not hard or too expensive to fix because parts are usually plentiful, perhaps with the exception of period correct calipers and brake levers. The muscle bike crowd has driven prices on brake calipers and levers (especially the levers) up.

https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/p/a-short-field-guide-to-schwinn-3-speed.html

 

[schwinnlax]

Thanks for the comments. I did take some time and look at other pictures of 2 speed Travelers from the early '60s, and it does appear they all have drilled forks and a drilled tube for mounting rear brakes and the rear fender. So, it appears Schwinn used standard frame/forks for the 3/2/1 speed lightweights, with only the bracket for mounting the 3 speed cable pulley being the difference (which is what's missing from the '61, as Mike mentioned.) I am tempted to buy both bikes at a discount deal - maybe $250 for the pair. But, these are a bit of a drive for me, so it will be a matter of when I could get there. Seller says he has the original seat for the '61 and original stem for both.

These were originally listed for sale on CL in early May, and are still for sale and these are near a major city (maybe not much collector interest?) As Mike said, 23" frame lightweights are scarce from mid-early 60s, and rare earlier than that (from my 2 years of looking). When you look at the catalogs, 23" frames were one of the options (along with 19" and 21"), but generally there was a surcharge for the 23" frame. I assume most bike dealers only provided these as a special order and didn't carry any in stock, or at most just one or two?

 

[Eric Amlie]

Another thing missing from the 1-2 speed frame are the cable housing stops under the top tube for the rear caliper brake.
You can run cable housing all the way back, but IMHO, it looks terrible, as with this otherwise fabulous looking bicycle.

 

[PCHiggin]

You’ll like the 2 speed, I like it more than a 3 speed. No cables,other than a possible front brake

 

[SirMike1983]

Another thing missing from the 1-2 speed frame are the cable housing stops under the top tube for the rear caliper brake.
You can run cable housing all the way back, but IMHO, it looks terrible, as with this otherwise fabulous looking bicycle.

View attachment 1010087

The English ran full-length cable housings and it can be made to work and look clean, provided the cable routing is good. There are competing views on whether the open or closed brake cable set up is better. The open potentially reduces friction, but the closed offers more weather protection to the cables.

The other option is a cable stop clamp and ferrule to substitute for the frame bosses, but I tend to think the closed cable system is a little better than adding more clamps to the frame.

I guess if I had the choice of the two bikes and really wanted a 3-speed, I'd go with the later bike that is already set up. But maybe I'm at the point where I'm doing fewer conversions of bikes to 3-speed these days and more just preservation of what's already there. A package deal on both sounds good. The Bendix 2-speed is a great hub if you're not dealing with big hills. Those Bendix brakes can lock a wheel up tight too.