62? Raleigh Sports with 'Lenton' Dual Drive

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usarnie1

Finally riding a big boys bike
Aug 10, 2015
141
Woodland Hills, CA
I asked my cousin, who lives in the U.K., about the darts that Raleigh used on their paint sceme and he told me it was used only on 1961 to 1962 Raleigh bicycles. No reason why or why it was discontinued.
 
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3-speeder

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Dec 26, 2017
654
Lansing, MI, United States
So @Oilit has me thinking about the beautiful darts pattern. Raleigh Industries was acquired by TI in 1960. A few years later someone who was originally a pencil-pusher at TI gets a questionably earned promotion and decides to ax the darts to go back to an old standard paint scheme that was "the foundation of the company ". Everyone claps and they get a pat on the back because it will also be cheaper and easier to produce. Hmmmmm. Conspiracy theory? Maybe so, maybe no. :rolleyes:
 
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Oilit

I live for the CABE
Dec 30, 2015
1,316
Concord NC
I bet the "cheaper and easier to produce" was a big part of it. "After all, we're one big happy family now, no reason to keep up this wasteful competition nonsense."
 

3-speeder

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Dec 26, 2017
654
Lansing, MI, United States
Started the rehab and detail of this bike. Find it in the Project Bikes section here:
 
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sykerocker

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jan 23, 2020
43
70
Ashland, VA
The old Benelux/Sturmey combination. I've got experience with the Benelux derailleurs (I have a '58 Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix) and also experience with a Benelux 3-speed SA cluster (built a Raleigh Twenty up like that using a Huret Allvit derailleur back in my college days in the early/mid-70's), but have never run both in tandem.

That Benelux derailleur is a very sweet shifting mechanism, hurt only by the very narrow range it can handle. I believe the four speed cluster I have on my Lenton is something like 15-19, with a 46-48 chainset. By today's standards it makes you wonder why it had derailleurs at all. I have memories of that 3x3 setup on my Twenty being fairly decent for climbing the hills south of 19th street in Erie once the shop that employed me moved out from the city limits into the shopping mall area on US19.

Definitely treasure that bike. I'd love to find on myself to add to my Raleigh roadster collection.
 

3-speeder

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Dec 26, 2017
654
Lansing, MI, United States
I can't wait to really get this baby on the road come nice weather. I'll wait for the spring rain to wash the road salt away. I'm enjoying the rehab. Detailing it will be fun too.
The cluster is 24-19-15. I imagine the range will feel wider than needed and I'm sure I'll learn my sweet spots. It'll be fun.
Most certainly this is a keeper that I will cherish. Neat to hear your story @sykerocker. Just finished rehab and detail of my Twenty Folder before starting on this project. Anticlimactic to finish a nice bike in the winter here. Looking forward to spring but not trying to rush winter away. Great time to hermit away in the basement and work on bikes.
 

bulldog1935

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jan 21, 2013
3,898
Bulverde, TX
Thanks everyone. The man I got it from gave it a quick spit shine. He picked it up from an estate sale, said it was the best one of a few Raleighs there. I plan to give it a complete tune up, polish and wax and then enjoy it as it is. I've been trying to stick to buying 23" frames and was very happy to get this one. Picked it up in Toledo Ohio and the license reads Sylvania Ohio. I'm thinking the tune up should go smoothly as I've done a few Raleighs but I may need a little advise on the Cyclo, if that's what it is more commonly referred to as. Have no experience with that type of dérailleur. Here is a curiosity to me, Schwinn tires. Maybe modern ones? Wouldn't think they could be the old 597's and seat properly. Size reads only 26 x 1 3/8. Still in pretty good shape too.
Edit note: the size also includes "to fit EA-3 rim"
image.jpg
'62 is consistent with the serial numbers ending in RA +an extra letter.
My '57 ends in RA - they went to RB and added the third letters later when they needed more
 

1951 C.W.S

Finally riding a big boys bike
Feb 25, 2019
205
18
Fort Collins Colorado
I must say that it would be great fun to have a 6 speed hub , is there any chance to make that happen to a normal sturmey?
 
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3-speeder

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Dec 26, 2017
654
Lansing, MI, United States
I must say that it would be great fun to have a 6 speed hub , is there any chance to make that happen to a normal sturmey?
The SA hub is a standard AW model. You would have to find a 3 cog cassette like the one pictured in my project thread of this bike, linked above, and a rear derailleur. With those two items I think you could modify most bikes that had a Sturmey hub and rear drop outs. Probably not a DL-1 with the rear forks, but maybe.
 
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sykerocker

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jan 23, 2020
43
70
Ashland, VA
I must say that it would be great fun to have a 6 speed hub , is there any chance to make that happen to a normal sturmey?
I hope not. While the classic 3-speed Sturmey-Archer AW seems to have acquired the (deserved) reputation of God's Gift to Internally Geared Hubs, S-A's other attempts never really lived up to it.

One of my two commuters is a '69 Raleigh Sprite, which is essentially a Raleigh Sports with the S-A S5 5-speed hub in place of the AW. It works, but it's not a nice easy job of shifting 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1. To begin with, functionally it's an AW (right lever) with a overdrive/underdrive (left lever). Putting it in low gear on the right (narrow range low) then pulling back on the left lever gives you wide range low. Aka, extra low. Likewise, if you're in high on the right lever (narrow range high) and pull back on the left, you're now in wide range high. Extra high, overdrive.

Except that the left lever never seems to shift nearly as crisply as the right lever, and sometime will bloody well refuse to connect unless you flat out stop the bike. Because of this, I tend to use the bike as a dual 3-speed, running 2-3-4 on the right with the left lever forward, and 1-3-5 with the left lever back. Other than that foible, the hub is quite reliable and works quite well. As I've got the bike geared perfectly for me on the flats when in directly drive (3rd gear), I will usually set up the left lever in advance for the terrain I know I'm going to be riding. I have three shopping centers within a 4.5 mile radius of my house, two of which are pretty much on the flat, the third having on hell of a climb coming home. So it's easy enough to setup for the 1-3-5 combination just before I hit the drop/climb. I've gotten reports that adding a spring between the left side cable and bell crank takes care of the problem, but have yet to mess with it.

Did I mention that the levers were absolute crap with poor indents, snapped easily, and are absolute unobtanium? To the point that I've got filed to do 3-D printing of an equivalent if I ever decide to learn how to mess with a 3-D printer. For my bike, I've got a regular AW handlebar shifter for the right side, and am cautiously using the original left side lever. The levers more than the hub itself were the source of it's slightly dodgy reputation.

I don't see how you could take a classic S-A and turn it into a 6-speed. Possibly something could be kludged using the above system on their 4-speed hub (can't remember the model name right now, sorry), but given that since that hub had a much less than stellar reputation for reliability and longevity, I don't think it'd be worth the time.
 

sykerocker

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jan 23, 2020
43
70
Ashland, VA
So @Oilit has me thinking about the beautiful darts pattern. Raleigh Industries was acquired by TI in 1960. A few years later someone who was originally a pencil-pusher at TI gets a questionably earned promotion and decides to ax the darts to go back to an old standard paint scheme that was "the foundation of the company ". Everyone claps and they get a pat on the back because it will also be cheaper and easier to produce. Hmmmmm. Conspiracy theory? Maybe so, maybe no. :rolleyes:
Allow me to venture another possible reason: In 1958 the Morris Mini Minor arrived, followed shortly afterwards by the Austin Seven. Aka, the Mini. This marks the beginning of the end for the British motorcycle industry, with the major manufacturer AMC (Matchless, AJS, Norton, James and another Villiers 2-stroke powered marque who's name escapes me) going under by 1965. Followed in the next seven years by the rest of the industry, and only half of that can be blamed on Honda motorcycles. The classic British commuting motorcycle (with sidecar) was rendered obsolete by the Mini.

This would have also affected the commuter bicycle industry in England, too. I've no doubt that that gorgeous Sports with the fancy, more expensive, paint job and that definitely more expensive hybrid 3x3 drive was rapidly becoming a cost that the factory couldn't afford. Because, with the advent of the Mini, it wasn't just motorcycle commuters who could afford to get out of the weather and into a proper automobile, but I've got no doubt that many bicycle commuters would happily give up their rides in favor of at least a used 5-year old (1963) or so Mini as soon as they could make the hire/purchase.

Some somebody in accounting said, "back to the cheaper to produce models, because we're only going to be selling to those people who can't afford even a used car."
 

1951 C.W.S

Finally riding a big boys bike
Feb 25, 2019
205
18
Fort Collins Colorado
I hope not. While the classic 3-speed Sturmey-Archer AW seems to have acquired the (deserved) reputation of God's Gift to Internally Geared Hubs, S-A's other attempts never really lived up to it.

One of my two commuters is a '69 Raleigh Sprite, which is essentially a Raleigh Sports with the S-A S5 5-speed hub in place of the AW. It works, but it's not a nice easy job of shifting 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1. To begin with, functionally it's an AW (right lever) with a overdrive/underdrive (left lever). Putting it in low gear on the right (narrow range low) then pulling back on the left lever gives you wide range low. Aka, extra low. Likewise, if you're in high on the right lever (narrow range high) and pull back on the left, you're now in wide range high. Extra high, overdrive.

Except that the left lever never seems to shift nearly as crisply as the right lever, and sometime will bloody well refuse to connect unless you flat out stop the bike. Because of this, I tend to use the bike as a dual 3-speed, running 2-3-4 on the right with the left lever forward, and 1-3-5 with the left lever back. Other than that foible, the hub is quite reliable and works quite well. As I've got the bike geared perfectly for me on the flats when in directly drive (3rd gear), I will usually set up the left lever in advance for the terrain I know I'm going to be riding. I have three shopping centers within a 4.5 mile radius of my house, two of which are pretty much on the flat, the third having on hell of a climb coming home. So it's easy enough to setup for the 1-3-5 combination just before I hit the drop/climb. I've gotten reports that adding a spring between the left side cable and bell crank takes care of the problem, but have yet to mess with it.

Did I mention that the levers were absolute crap with poor indents, snapped easily, and are absolute unobtanium? To the point that I've got filed to do 3-D printing of an equivalent if I ever decide to learn how to mess with a 3-D printer. For my bike, I've got a regular AW handlebar shifter for the right side, and am cautiously using the original left side lever. The levers more than the hub itself were the source of it's slightly dodgy reputation.

I don't see how you could take a classic S-A and turn it into a 6-speed. Possibly something could be kludged using the above system on their 4-speed hub (can't remember the model name right now, sorry), but given that since that hub had a much less than stellar reputation for reliability and longevity, I don't think it'd be worth the time.
I agree
3 speeds dont get the appreciation that they desrve , i thought it was just fun how they did that
 
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