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62? Raleigh Sports with 'Lenton' Dual Drive

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I must say that it would be great fun to have a 6 speed hub , is there any chance to make that happen to a normal sturmey?
The SA hub is a standard AW model. You would have to find a 3 cog cassette like the one pictured in my project thread of this bike, linked above, and a rear derailleur. With those two items I think you could modify most bikes that had a Sturmey hub and rear drop outs. Probably not a DL-1 with the rear forks, but maybe.
 
I must say that it would be great fun to have a 6 speed hub , is there any chance to make that happen to a normal sturmey?

I hope not. While the classic 3-speed Sturmey-Archer AW seems to have acquired the (deserved) reputation of God's Gift to Internally Geared Hubs, S-A's other attempts never really lived up to it.

One of my two commuters is a '69 Raleigh Sprite, which is essentially a Raleigh Sports with the S-A S5 5-speed hub in place of the AW. It works, but it's not a nice easy job of shifting 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1. To begin with, functionally it's an AW (right lever) with a overdrive/underdrive (left lever). Putting it in low gear on the right (narrow range low) then pulling back on the left lever gives you wide range low. Aka, extra low. Likewise, if you're in high on the right lever (narrow range high) and pull back on the left, you're now in wide range high. Extra high, overdrive.

Except that the left lever never seems to shift nearly as crisply as the right lever, and sometime will bloody well refuse to connect unless you flat out stop the bike. Because of this, I tend to use the bike as a dual 3-speed, running 2-3-4 on the right with the left lever forward, and 1-3-5 with the left lever back. Other than that foible, the hub is quite reliable and works quite well. As I've got the bike geared perfectly for me on the flats when in directly drive (3rd gear), I will usually set up the left lever in advance for the terrain I know I'm going to be riding. I have three shopping centers within a 4.5 mile radius of my house, two of which are pretty much on the flat, the third having on hell of a climb coming home. So it's easy enough to setup for the 1-3-5 combination just before I hit the drop/climb. I've gotten reports that adding a spring between the left side cable and bell crank takes care of the problem, but have yet to mess with it.

Did I mention that the levers were absolute crap with poor indents, snapped easily, and are absolute unobtanium? To the point that I've got filed to do 3-D printing of an equivalent if I ever decide to learn how to mess with a 3-D printer. For my bike, I've got a regular AW handlebar shifter for the right side, and am cautiously using the original left side lever. The levers more than the hub itself were the source of it's slightly dodgy reputation.

I don't see how you could take a classic S-A and turn it into a 6-speed. Possibly something could be kludged using the above system on their 4-speed hub (can't remember the model name right now, sorry), but given that since that hub had a much less than stellar reputation for reliability and longevity, I don't think it'd be worth the time.
 
So @Oilit has me thinking about the beautiful darts pattern. Raleigh Industries was acquired by TI in 1960. A few years later someone who was originally a pencil-pusher at TI gets a questionably earned promotion and decides to ax the darts to go back to an old standard paint scheme that was "the foundation of the company ". Everyone claps and they get a pat on the back because it will also be cheaper and easier to produce. Hmmmmm. Conspiracy theory? Maybe so, maybe no. :rolleyes:

Allow me to venture another possible reason: In 1958 the Morris Mini Minor arrived, followed shortly afterwards by the Austin Seven. Aka, the Mini. This marks the beginning of the end for the British motorcycle industry, with the major manufacturer AMC (Matchless, AJS, Norton, James and another Villiers 2-stroke powered marque who's name escapes me) going under by 1965. Followed in the next seven years by the rest of the industry, and only half of that can be blamed on Honda motorcycles. The classic British commuting motorcycle (with sidecar) was rendered obsolete by the Mini.

This would have also affected the commuter bicycle industry in England, too. I've no doubt that that gorgeous Sports with the fancy, more expensive, paint job and that definitely more expensive hybrid 3x3 drive was rapidly becoming a cost that the factory couldn't afford. Because, with the advent of the Mini, it wasn't just motorcycle commuters who could afford to get out of the weather and into a proper automobile, but I've got no doubt that many bicycle commuters would happily give up their rides in favor of at least a used 5-year old (1963) or so Mini as soon as they could make the hire/purchase.

Some somebody in accounting said, "back to the cheaper to produce models, because we're only going to be selling to those people who can't afford even a used car."
 
I hope not. While the classic 3-speed Sturmey-Archer AW seems to have acquired the (deserved) reputation of God's Gift to Internally Geared Hubs, S-A's other attempts never really lived up to it.

One of my two commuters is a '69 Raleigh Sprite, which is essentially a Raleigh Sports with the S-A S5 5-speed hub in place of the AW. It works, but it's not a nice easy job of shifting 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1. To begin with, functionally it's an AW (right lever) with a overdrive/underdrive (left lever). Putting it in low gear on the right (narrow range low) then pulling back on the left lever gives you wide range low. Aka, extra low. Likewise, if you're in high on the right lever (narrow range high) and pull back on the left, you're now in wide range high. Extra high, overdrive.

Except that the left lever never seems to shift nearly as crisply as the right lever, and sometime will bloody well refuse to connect unless you flat out stop the bike. Because of this, I tend to use the bike as a dual 3-speed, running 2-3-4 on the right with the left lever forward, and 1-3-5 with the left lever back. Other than that foible, the hub is quite reliable and works quite well. As I've got the bike geared perfectly for me on the flats when in directly drive (3rd gear), I will usually set up the left lever in advance for the terrain I know I'm going to be riding. I have three shopping centers within a 4.5 mile radius of my house, two of which are pretty much on the flat, the third having on hell of a climb coming home. So it's easy enough to setup for the 1-3-5 combination just before I hit the drop/climb. I've gotten reports that adding a spring between the left side cable and bell crank takes care of the problem, but have yet to mess with it.

Did I mention that the levers were absolute crap with poor indents, snapped easily, and are absolute unobtanium? To the point that I've got filed to do 3-D printing of an equivalent if I ever decide to learn how to mess with a 3-D printer. For my bike, I've got a regular AW handlebar shifter for the right side, and am cautiously using the original left side lever. The levers more than the hub itself were the source of it's slightly dodgy reputation.

I don't see how you could take a classic S-A and turn it into a 6-speed. Possibly something could be kludged using the above system on their 4-speed hub (can't remember the model name right now, sorry), but given that since that hub had a much less than stellar reputation for reliability and longevity, I don't think it'd be worth the time.
I agree
3 speeds dont get the appreciation that they desrve , i thought it was just fun how they did that
 
Allow me to venture another possible reason: In 1958 the Morris Mini Minor arrived, followed shortly afterwards by the Austin Seven. Aka, the Mini. This marks the beginning of the end for the British motorcycle industry, with the major manufacturer AMC (Matchless, AJS, Norton, James and another Villiers 2-stroke powered marque who's name escapes me) going under by 1965. Followed in the next seven years by the rest of the industry, and only half of that can be blamed on Honda motorcycles. The classic British commuting motorcycle (with sidecar) was rendered obsolete by the Mini.

This would have also affected the commuter bicycle industry in England, too. I've no doubt that that gorgeous Sports with the fancy, more expensive, paint job and that definitely more expensive hybrid 3x3 drive was rapidly becoming a cost that the factory couldn't afford. Because, with the advent of the Mini, it wasn't just motorcycle commuters who could afford to get out of the weather and into a proper automobile, but I've got no doubt that many bicycle commuters would happily give up their rides in favor of at least a used 5-year old (1963) or so Mini as soon as they could make the hire/purchase.

Some somebody in accounting said, "back to the cheaper to produce models, because we're only going to be selling to those people who can't afford even a used car."
This sounds right for the domestic market (UK), but in the U.S. cars had already captured the commuter market and bikes were more of an enthusiast's item. You would think the high end would get more focus here. But maybe the high end was already shifting to derailleur-equipped bikes.
 
This sounds right for the domestic market (UK), but in the U.S. cars had already captured the commuter market and bikes were more of an enthusiast's item. You would think the high end would get more focus here. But maybe the high end was already shifting to derailleur-equipped bikes.
US market, let me dig back into my childhood memories: July 9, 1958 and dad surprises me on my 8th birthday with a Schwinn Mark IV Jaguar with the coaster brake version of the AW (damn if I can remember the nomenclature). I easily had the best bicycle in the neighborhood, and the only one with a three speed hub. Rode it steadily for the next five years thru the tail end of the middleweight era of kids bikes, running right up into the StingRays. Now, I lived in a conservative, western Pennsylvania coal and steel town, and 'furrin' bikes were damn few and far between. We only had one bike shop in town, and that was the Schwinn dealer.

In our overly conservative market, three speeds never really took off all that much. It was either 'paperboy specials', cutting right over to StingRays, and they were all single speed until the five speed StingRays started showing up. At which time, I assume also meant the Varsities, Continentals, etc., except that I wasn't noticing them at that time. Then again, by the time the five speeds were arriving, I was either about to turn, or already had turned, fifteen - which meant there was no way in hell I was looking at a bicycle anymore. Of course dad had a shiny new car waiting for my sixteenth birthday.

Yeah, right. Dad got out of the Chevrolet dealership eight months before my sixteenth birthday.
 
US market, let me dig back into my childhood memories: July 9, 1958 and dad surprises me on my 8th birthday with a Schwinn Mark IV Jaguar with the coaster brake version of the AW (damn if I can remember the nomenclature). I easily had the best bicycle in the neighborhood, and the only one with a three speed hub. Rode it steadily for the next five years thru the tail end of the middleweight era of kids bikes, running right up into the StingRays. Now, I lived in a conservative, western Pennsylvania coal and steel town, and 'furrin' bikes were damn few and far between. We only had one bike shop in town, and that was the Schwinn dealer.

In our overly conservative market, three speeds never really took off all that much. It was either 'paperboy specials', cutting right over to StingRays, and they were all single speed until the five speed StingRays started showing up. At which time, I assume also meant the Varsities, Continentals, etc., except that I wasn't noticing them at that time. Then again, by the time the five speeds were arriving, I was either about to turn, or already had turned, fifteen - which meant there was no way in hell I was looking at a bicycle anymore. Of course dad had a shiny new car waiting for my sixteenth birthday.

Yeah, right. Dad got out of the Chevrolet dealership eight months before my sixteenth birthday.
"You want a car? Better get a job and start saving." My dad gave me a quarter for every "A" I got on my report card, in grade school anyway. After that it was root hog or die. But at least I didn't have to pay rent.
 
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