A Superior? True or False

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PCHiggin

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jan 22, 2008
3,880
Ryderwood, United States
I dont know enough about either model to make a call but I'd like to learn if anybody else does. Are the seat clamps different?
 

bikemonkey

I live for the CABE
Jun 25, 2016
1,323
67
North Carolina , Albemarle, NC, United States
My interest waned at the part where the serial number was defaced.

Maybe my math is wrong but something does not add up...In order to have that 9 speed set up you would have to be using a Sturmey-Archer "K" hub. Wiki states the K hub was introduced in 1922 and was replaced by the AW in 1938. The owner states his Superior was bought in early 1951 and he kept the original SA hub during his modifications, but the spec sheet for a 1952 Superior lists the AW hub.
 

rennfaron

Finally riding a big boys bike
Sep 19, 2018
293
Austin, Texas
I started asking questions to the seller and just getting vague answers in response. Something fishy when asking questions to a bike shop and they act like they don't know...

edit - replied back that the seat post clamp is welded on / firmly attached and not removable.
 
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Andrew Gorman

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jun 15, 2008
2,942
Pasadena (Hastings Ranch), United States
Superiors and Paramounts were pretty much made to order and any way you wanted them. The long wheelbase looks like a Superior tourer, but it's missing the little fender mount tabs. Looks like a nice period bike put together by an enthusiast. There were triple cog set ups for the AW hub available.
 
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bobcycles

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Sep 30, 2006
4,479
13
so cal beaches
I started asking questions to the seller and just getting vague answers in response. Something fishy when asking questions to a bike shop and they act like they don't know...

edit - replied back that the seat post clamp is welded on / firmly attached and not removable.
They are Sting Ray folks......
 

rennfaron

Finally riding a big boys bike
Sep 19, 2018
293
Austin, Texas
I looked back through all my catalogued images of new worlds, continentals, superiors, paramounts etc and didn't come across one example that had no significant head tube height sticking up higher than the top tube. The top tube almost runs right into the top of the head tube. Chopped? Why?

Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 2.50.20 PM.png
 

GTs58

I'm the Wiz, and nobody beats me!
Sep 2, 2012
11,256
Central Arizona
Looks like the owner Richard Pierce defaced the serial number and then carved in the date he butchered up that New World and renamed it a Superior. Also noticed that Bluemoon added some info today saying the bike is on consignment.
No built in kickstand, welded on seat post clamp, standard diameter gas pipe tubing, not cromo, with standard diameter seat post. That has to be a modified 1940-41 New World and Richard Pierce had a lapse of memory or was still delusional when he wrote that letter.
 
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Jeff54

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Sep 11, 2013
2,274
Ft Myers, Florida
My interest waned at the part where the serial number was defaced.

Maybe my math is wrong but something does not add up...In order to have that 9 speed set up you would have to be using a Sturmey-Archer "K" hub. Wiki states the K hub was introduced in 1922 and was replaced by the AW in 1938. The owner states his Superior was bought in early 1951 and he kept the original SA hub during his modifications, but the spec sheet for a 1952 Superior lists the AW hub.
With wheels an SA hub or what ever original to him, I seriously doubt he ruined a new bike with his 'custom 'paint. So, Just cause he created a 9 speed Frankenstein in 51, it doesn't mean the bike was made then or wasn't a parts bike to begin with. .
 

ccdc.1

Look Ma, No Hands!
Dec 11, 2010
31
Charleston, SC
This does appear to be a transitional bike between the New World and 2nd generation Superior. The welded on seat tube clamp and the rear dropouts say early New World, but the fork crown and dropouts, tubing diameter and the assertions of the previous owner say 2nd generation Superior, which was introduced as a down-market model below the Continental in 1949 (and very different from the first generation Superior, Track or Tourist versions). Maybe these were holdover/leftover New World frames re-purposed as a 'new' Superior model in 1949, sorta like the Sport Tourer frames that found new life as the Superior in 1975-76? I see the bike has sold....likely for the Paramount crank, Torrington pedals and the nice deep alloy track bars. Maybe the frame will show up again after it is stripped of these goodies?

1949 superior.jpg
 

GTs58

I'm the Wiz, and nobody beats me!
Sep 2, 2012
11,256
Central Arizona
This does appear to be a transitional bike between the New World and 2nd generation Superior. The welded on seat tube clamp and the rear dropouts say early New World, but the fork crown and dropouts, tubing diameter and the assertions of the previous owner say 2nd generation Superior, which was introduced as a down-market model below the Continental in 1949 (and very different from the first generation Superior, Track or Tourist versions). Maybe these were holdover/leftover New World frames re-purposed as a 'new' Superior model in 1949, sorta like the Sport Tourer frames that found new life as the Superior in 1975-76? I see the bike has sold....likely for the Paramount crank, Torrington pedals and the nice deep alloy track bars. Maybe the frame will show up again after it is stripped of these goodies?

1949 superior.jpg
I'm sure that NW sold for the reasons you mentioned. It did have a few parts on it that are pretty hard to find and sought after but the frame is still a pre war built frame that was outdated by the war time built frames that had EF head tubes and EF top and down tube joints at the head tube. All the post war models had a built in kickstand so this piece is staying in tune with a pre war built New World. The fork was more than likely swapped out and rennfaron brought up the head tube height above the top tube, which looks short and possibly milled down to accommodate a mismatched steer tube.
 

GTs58

I'm the Wiz, and nobody beats me!
Sep 2, 2012
11,256
Central Arizona
I thought their EF process was post war?
Nope, it actually started pre war with the rear drop outs on the 1940 lightweights. Then war time 42+ the BB shell, head tube, top and down tubes to the head tube and seat post to the bottom bracket were EF. Then the chain stays and down tube to BB were EF on the post war frames. The early post war lightweights still had the chain stays hand welded to the BB.

Go thru @Miq 's thread on the New Worlds, there's a few examples shown.
 
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PCHiggin

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jan 22, 2008
3,880
Ryderwood, United States
Thanks,always cool to learn something new. I didnt know they made bikes during the war,I thought Columbia and Huffman had the exclusive on that
 
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