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A very sad sight

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Here's a few more. This is for sale, but I'd like to figure out what it's worth in that condition.
Thanks for your input, Bill

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Hello...

I'm certain that I was the first to collect Elgin Gulls and the information about them. I always wanted one as a kid and finally got my first Elgin Gull in the 1970s. I still have it today in mint condition with the original red Troxel saddle and "ELGIN" ornament on the Torrington Bevelock handlebar stem. Over the years I have owned a few other Gulls. I also managed to save the original factory 8 x 10 glossy photos and company letters about the Gull when it was first being planned and constructed.

BACK IN THE 1970s I also managed to find an engineer who originally worked on the Gull for Sears and Westfield. This was when nobody cared and there was no hobby, no internet and no "experts." I saved this stuff in the 1970s and I still have all of these items today.

While people in this crazy hobby today are claiming there are only four or five known, this can't be possible. Certainly not if I count up the ones I know about and the ones I have owned. So. While there may be any number of "experts" out there all ready to argue about the Gull. I have been collecting these and saving their history for something like 60 years.

RE: the Gull frame in your photos... Your Gull has simply fallen victim to weathering and a condition known as "age hardening" that takes place with old aluminum– especially from the 1930s. Stuff gets brittle and crumbly and weak. It appears your frame has separated at the assembly points, rather than merely breaking. But this said, I would say your frame is very repairable– at least to get it aesthetically back to how it ought to be. I just would not ever consider attempting to ride it. These bicycles were not good to ride even when new.

And these bicycles were not put together like Silver Kings (I collect these too since childhood)... not at all. So don't go there. Completely different assembly method and design.

Get someone who has expertise in working with aluminum and doing machining work. Get the lug pegs extended with fresh billet back where they should be... and reconnect the tubes. Then have them flush-pinned as original. Then yes, admire it as a display item and leave it at that.

Your handlebar assembly has been replaced. The original factory handlebar was all aluminum. My keeper Gull still has the original all-aluminum assembly intact and in nearly perfect condition. The Gull in the photo appears to have rusted chrome-plated steel handlebars. This tells me right away that the original assembly likely broke as most did and was replaced (as most were) with a steel unit. This was Sears' remedy for broken Gull handlebars (Westfield's remedy too).

I can also see that your saddle stem appears to be either broken off or missing. Again... these were originally made of aluminum billet. And yes, they broke off regularly and when this happened were replaced with steel.

I am attaching a photo of my keeper Gull with some of my other bicycles on display at "Balloonatic '88"... a meet I put on in Southern California, guess when? Please forgive the typo on the photo caption regarding "Sachnoffsky" which should be "Sakhnoffsky." (This is the bicycle that today's "experts" call "pod bike"....got this one in the 1970s too).

For what it is worth.

Leon Dixon
National Bicycle History Archive of America (NBHAA.com)

ElginGullSKFloCycleLeonDixon1988WM.jpg
 
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Wow! Thank you so much for your post. Much important information in it. Your bikes are gorgeous.
Judging from the rust on the steel parts of mine, I'm guessing it broke early as many of them did, and it lay outside for many years before it was offered to me 30 some years ago. It's been inside on top of a bike rack in the back of the shop since. Thanks again for your post. Much appreciated!
 
Wow! Thank you so much for your post. Much important information in it. Your bikes are gorgeous.
Judging from the rust on the steel parts of mine, I'm guessing it broke early as many of them did, and it lay outside for many years before it was offered to me 30 some years ago. It's been inside on top of a bike rack in the back of the shop since. Thanks again for your post. Much appreciated!
You are most welcome.

Thanks for the compliments. Even I have to look back and say it was 35 years ago when I took this photo. And It was long years before then when I was collecting it. Some people today look at my photos and imagine that somehow I just took them recently. This one was shot with a Nikon 35mm camera.

Good luck with your Gull and thanks for saving it all these years.
 
Moving stuff around my bike shop after 50 years in the same spot. Remembering and finding a few treasures along the way. This isn't one. Cobwebs are original, and it's been on top of a big rack in the back of the shop for over 30 years, since I saved it from going to the dump. Hoping one of the experts on here can tell me about it. Aluminum frame, broken in 2 pieces, Elgin head badge, elegant stem, IMHO. So who made the frame, and how old is this relic? If it was a car, I'd expect it to be called yard art, but... Sad. Any ideas?

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I would like to aquire this bike if you have no plans for this project. It's definitely worth saving. Any good welder should be able to save this frame. Keep us posted .. Thanks. Mark.
 
I would like to aquire this bike if you have no plans for this project. It's definitely worth saving. Any good welder should be able to save this frame. Keep us posted .. Thanks. Mark.
This Elgin Gull frame does not show broken welds that I can see. Gull frames were not welded. Nor can welds alone repair what is going on here. As I said earlier... the owner needs to find someone who is a machinist and who is familiar with working on aluminum alloy. AND someone who can take the time to observe and learn how this frame was constructed before attempting to work on it. Somebody who won't King-Kong it. Breaking out the welding torches and cutting up Silver King frames is definitely not the answer to what is going on here. And I say this both as a very long-time owner of several Elgin Gulls AND as a professional engineer who has actually designed things that are out there in the real world today.

Here is what needs to be done:
• The castings need to be cleaned up and fitted with new, fresh aluminum billet cylinders.
• These billet extensions would then be re-inserted into cleaned-out and prepped existing tubing.
The existing pins (which are done similar to aircraft rivets) need to be removed (possibly drilled out) and ports cleaned
• New fresh aluminum billet ends need to be re-inserted into tubes, drilled where pins go.
• Pins need to be inserted, compressed and then made flush
• Polish the assembly (of course with headbadge and other items removed)
 
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This is very fixable. Original to museum quality equals many hours and a resto expert. There’s plenty of other junk aluminum frames to steal bars from to “patch” in. I’d even ride it to prove it’s repaired strong and display it. I wonder what the reason was to recall these
 
I wonder if it would be Kosher to replace all the tubing w/new, as long as it was advertised as such if someone ever sold it?

How much lighter was it than a similar steel bike?
 
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