Advice Needed- What can you tell me bout this part? 1880 High Wheel Bicycle

[The Carolina Rambler]

Hello everyone, hope you had a blessed Independence Day! So, I am now starting to make some headway on my 1880, Otto Model 4 bicycle built by Western Toy Company (Later Renamed Western Wheel Works), but I have reached somewhat of a snag. I am getting ready to fabricate the missing seat leaf spring and hardware, but I do not understand how this piece of hardware is mounted/ put together. It is a piece that apparently clamps onto the spine of the frame, and the rear end of the seat spring slides back and forth through it. I am able to fabricate from steel any part needed for this spring and hardware, but I really need more clarity on how this piece works, is formed, and put together.

Here are photos from an ebay sale of an Otto 4 from several years ago, and that is all I have to go on currently. It is identical to my machine but is the version with wire spoked wheel (and mine doesn't look this nice yet)

If anyone here has information they could share regarding this, it is greatly appreciated. If you have an Otto and could take photos, that is best of all. Alternatively, if you somehow happen to have one of these parts floating around, I would be open to buying one instead of fabricating it myself. Thanks in advance for your help!

HERE IS A CLOSEUP OF THE PART IN QUESTION, HIGHLINED IN RED

 

[billyjones]

maybe it slid on prior to welding the lugs, just a thought. the one you make might have to vary slightly.. and that's 'ok'

 

[Porkchop & Applesauce]

Is the back bone possibly pinned to the head tube? Looks like that collar is cast metal that has the top slider section riveted to it. Definitely seems like it would have to slide over that back bone from one end or the other.

 

[billyjones]

yepper

 

[Andrew Gorman]

If it was put over the backbone before assembly it probably wouldn't have fallen off and got lost. Otto's and St. Nicholas bikes were pretty primitive compared to other brands- a requirement of their license under the Pope patents. Other high wheelers used a two piece clamp for the rear saddle mount- this one looks like a U-shaped piece pinched over the tubing with a flat cap, like a clamp-on downtube shifter mount but stouter. Someone at the Wheelmen might know- they are most active on facebook these days.

 

[The Carolina Rambler]

maybe it slid on prior to welding the lugs, just a thought. the one you make might have to vary slightly.. and that's 'ok'

Hello Billy! I am inclined to think that this clamp probably was something installed after the frame was assembled initially, as Andrew has proposed. I also think this because of the fact that it did get lost, for one, but also judging from the way it appears in the photo, it just looks like the sort of part that would be removable that way, and would be easier to assemble if it could be installed after the frame was built. Although I would like to fabricate a part as similar to the original as possible, it is definitely understandable if it isn't built exact, just so long as it works as intended and looks pretty well the same. Thank you for your reply to this thread!

 

[The Carolina Rambler]

Is the back bone possibly pinned to the head tube? Looks like that collar is cast metal that has the top slider section riveted to it. Definitely seems like it would have to slide over that back bone from one end or the other.

View attachment 2071697

Hello! That is an interesting point you make regarding the fashion in which the spine of the frame attaches to the cast head set. That is something I have been trying to figure out. Almost like there was some type of mechanical forge weld, where one was pressed into the other when molten hot. I have another bicycle, older build, where the spine of the frame is pinned to the headset. It being a little older, also does not feature tapered tubing, but heavy straight guage tubing. As for this Otto, I do not think it is pinned in place, but yet I cannot see any other way it is attached. The two metals are also unlike metals, the spine being extruded steel tubing, and the head set and forks cast of malleable iron.

 

[The Carolina Rambler]

If it was put over the backbone before assembly it probably wouldn't have fallen off and got lost. Otto's and St. Nicholas bikes were pretty primitive compared to other brands- a requirement of their license under the Pope patents. Other high wheelers used a two piece clamp for the rear saddle mount- this one looks like a U-shaped piece pinched over the tubing with a flat cap, like a clamp-on downtube shifter mount but stouter. Someone at the Wheelmen might know- they are most active on facebook these days.

Hello Andrew! Thank you for your reply. Would you happen to have a picture of this downtube shifter mount, so that I might can get an idea of how one of those works. It might give me an idea for how to build this clamp I need. Another thing I question, is what is that screw nearest and facing the tire at the bottom of the clamp? I wonder what role that has to play in this setup. I will also add, that when looking over my bicycle frame, I actually cant seem to see any marks or wear from where the original clamp was or how it may have been, so I reckon it has been missing for a very long time, maybe a hundred years

 

[Andrew Gorman]

I thought the screw is just a set screw. The clamp would have to move back and forth a little to adjust the tension of the Saddle leather. Downtube shifter bosses are here- close but not exact:

Shifters - Clamp-On Downtube Shifters Bosses - Nelo's Cycles

neloscycles.com

 

[The Carolina Rambler]

I thought the screw is just a set screw. The clamp would have to move back and forth a little to adjust the tension of the Saddle leather. Downtube shifter bosses are here- close but not exact:

Shifters - Clamp-On Downtube Shifters Bosses - Nelo's Cycles

neloscycles.com

Thank You Andrew! And, I reckon I should also possibly reach out to the Wheelmen on their Facebook page, and get their take on this. I've browsed their page before, but never joined it, so I'll see how that goes