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Anyone identify these lugs and or frame?

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donmac70

Look Ma, No Hands!
Looks quite interesting and outfitted with fine early Campy and other parts. Has damage on seat stay and am wondering if it's worth having it repaired (replace the broken stay if possible
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Looks quite interesting and outfitted with fine early Campy and other parts. Has damage on seat stay and am wondering if it's worth having it repaired (replace the broken stay if possible), I know a frame builder who learned the skill at Whitcomb (Connecticut) back in the 70's who may be able to repair it. Any help or ideas would be appreciated. Thought at first maybe early Cinelli but BB not 74mm and lugs???

All chrome
58cm x 58cm (C-C)
Early "open C" Campagnolo dropouts
Italian BB 70mm wide (not 74mm)
Campy early BB (Italian)
1958 Record cotterless crankset (with raised pedal lip)
Campy Gran Sport derailleurs
Early Campy Headset
Campy hi flange Record no Record hubs (not shown in photos but all locknuts date 60 or 1960)
Ambrosio Champion stem and bars
 
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Thank you very much for sharing this interesting find.

As you have already determined we are right near to 1960 here. Frameset and fittings are all very much "of a piece."

The frame is constructed of an Agrati lug pattern termed "BRIANZA."

The lug set has the stock number ART. 000.8030/U.

The lower head lug is stock number 000.8033.

The upper head lug is stock numver 000.8034.

The seat lug is stock number 000.8039. It was offered in both the Malguti style as we have here and in a plain ("normal") style without the Malguti plugs.

The fork crown is stock number 000.8038.

The bottom bracket shell is part of the "BRIANZA" set as well but do not have the stock number for it.

The Campag ends set Nr. 1010 has right dropout Nr. 301 and left dropout Nr. 300.

Fork ends are Campag item Nr. 2.

Knowing the bits employed to construct the frame does little to advance an identification as all of these fittings were freely available to everyone - nothing proprietary in this case.

A pillar size of 26.2mm would suggest a quality plain gauge tubeset. Examine the north end of the seat tube to check if can be opened up or not. They frequently get somewhat deformed yielding an artificially small measurement. Given the materials and fittings employed one would expect the frame to be assembled of Columbus SL or SP tubing, or a combination of the two. This would yield a pillar size of either 27.0mm or 27.2mm. If frame constructed of Columbus tubing the steerer should exhibit helical ribs (rifling) on its interior surface. You should be able to see a Columbus dove marking on the outside of the steerer.

Can see no details to the frame which point to a specific maker.

Serial marked on shell appears to read 5801; is this correct? There look to be some characters in front of this which are illegible. Are you able to discern them?

The machine's brake set would have been either Universal (Fratelli Pietra) or Balilla (Giovanni Galli S.p.A.).

The headplate fastener dimension you provide may aid in an identification. See that the holes are arranged horizontally. Am away from my headplates this week but will be able to check them against the 40mm dimension next week.

Do not assume the chrome plating to be original. It is possible that it was done post manufacture. The uneveness of it in the seat cluster and bottom bracket areas is suggestive of an aftermarket job. Also, do not assume all braze-ons to be original.

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Wow many thanks Juvela for your fast response and detailed information!!! I did tap out the set tube top slot to parallel and am sure it's either 26.0 or 26.2 and yes looks like Serial # to be 5801 the other makings on BB maybe "LA 60" though pretty illegible.......if 60 it might mean that 60cm (C-T)???
 
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With respect to the markings on the bottom bracket keep in mind the possibility that some or all of the markings may have been put by a licensing agency. Do not wish to assert that this is the case; mention it only as a possibility.

Regarding the seat tube opening size -

there could be plating, dirt, corrosion on the interior which would give an artificially small reading. this especially the case here since plating appears it may be aftermarket. also, sometimes the heat of brazing the seat lug can put the seat tube a bit out-of-round. if mine, would run an expandable blade reamer through there to clear away any out-of-roundness or foreign matter. this is a tool all framebuilders and first quality bike shops will have.

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It looks like originally it was painted with some parts left bare chrome.
I have a couple frames with the same lugs.
Does it have head badge holes? If so, are they vertical or horizontal and how far are they apart.
If you decide to sell or trade the parts, I could use them.
Thanks,
Chris
 
It looks like originally it was painted with some parts left bare chrome.
I have a couple frames with the same lugs.
Does it have head badge holes? If so, are they vertical or horizontal and how far are they apart.
If you decide to sell or trade the parts, I could use them.
Thanks,
Chris

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head emblem fastener holes horizontal, 40mm apart

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Hi Juvela..........is that a K size adjustable reamer? Look forward to you reviewing your head badge sizes next week. Thanks again for your input!
 
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