ATALA 50s-60s?

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Jesper

Finally riding a big boys bike
I recently got an early Atala. Trying to determine approximate year of manufacture. Will post more photos; some got corrupted somehow (full frame, fork, drop-outs). Original crankset and headset. Campy drop-outs front. Seat post unsure; 26.0mm is too small and 26.4mm is too large. I have no 26.2mm and I have yet to measure the steel (OE?) post that came with it (fits very tight!). Clamp slot looks okay; not squeezed shut at all. Supposed repaint and replacement decals. I am unfamiliar with what the original decals should be.

Thanks for any help!
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juvela

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
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lug pattern Agrati "BRIANZA" ART. 000.8030/U

upper head lug N. 000.8034

lower head lug N. 000.8033

seat lug N. 022.8038

usually on these the first two characters of the serial indicates the year of manufacture

if cycle produced for export to the anglophone world the underside of the shell is marked with the nominal frame size as measured in inches in two places

center of bottom bracket spindle may be marked ATALA, also may be marked "57" - not a date - a reference to the width in mm's between the bearing shoulders

pillar size suggests produced with quality plain gauge tubing

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dnc1

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
A definite repaint judging by the thickness of the paint in the photo of the seat stay cluster.
Nice, quality find!
 

juvela

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
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earlier established discussion thread on the green example posted above -



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kccomet

I live for the CABE
not trying to highjack your thread, somewhat similar bikes, well their both early atals. condorinos maybe, here's my serial number. I'd like to see more pics of your bike and componets...thanks

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Jesper

Finally riding a big boys bike
Thanks on the lug ID and serial # info @juvela I need to check the serial # carefully; it's not too clear in the photo. @dnc1 you are corect as to repaint; appears to have been dark blue over cream unless the red is a second repaint. If it was 2 tone and I can find a representative original livery I will paint back to original. It would look much more classic, and red just doesn't suit its era. I do believe it should have "Atala" script decals, and not the block lettering style. I presumed straight gauge tubing given the post size; not a big deal since I like the lug pattern and the older head badge. There is a dent on the top of the top tube near the front, but the geometry is fine, tubing is still quite straight; it helped get it at a decent enough price ($150). I am curious as to when the Atala headbadge changed since I know I have seen late 60s badges that were different if original to the frame. Headset is in good condition, but the bottom of the head tube is providing a loose fit to the lower cup (cup does not appear worn) since I am able to easily insert it without a press. I have some brass shim material that should fix the problem; otherwise it goes to the machine shop to have a sleeve inserted.
I will keep the original crankset and BB installed if races are good. I have an early 3t "Touriste" stem and may use a Belleri bar (I have a Belleri stem, but it might be 22.0mm sized) if it fits the clamp (shim to fit?). Campy "Record" or "Gran Sport" bronze and steel rear derailleur, probably a "Record" front derailleur even though it's a little later in manufacture date, Universal Extra (Mod. 50 or 51) brakeset should blend in nicely, and what ever wheels I have on hand to fit with the brake reach is good enough. Not trying to make this 100% accurate, just trying to breath new life into it. Old Ideale saddle from a 60s Peugeot. Anyone have a 26.2mm post (alloy); I'll use my Campy 26.0 post (where did it come from?) with a shim if I can't find a better option.
 
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Jesper

Finally riding a big boys bike
@kccomet here are more photos. @juvela it would seem to be from 1958 based upon the serial number: 58G2800 (I think the letter is a "G", or # "6").
Simplex rear drop-outs, no markings found on frame other than the SN. Unmarked BB shell (70mm, Italian) w/o drain hole(s).
Juvela strikes again with knowledge of the BB: "56" stamp on it, and measured 56mm shoulder to shoulder. Unfortunately, it is too pitted for use; it would need to be machined so probably not worth it. I will try and hunt down a better OE replacement if possible. I don't think I have any cottered BBs on hand of any make for immediate substitution, and I want to use the original crankset (170mm, 52t/44t) since it is perfectly okay with minimal wear. The original cups are quite usable if I can find only an Atala spindle in good shape.
REG TT cable guides will be kept. Chainstay guides/stops are fine and will clean-up. Binder bolt and nut do not seem original to me so another part to hunt down without using a more modern one.
I will scrap the Campy Record FD idea and use an old Simplex 'suicide' derailleur which will allow for use of an early Campy single shift lever for the RD.
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TT dent:
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juvela

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
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thank you for all of the new information and imagery 😉

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appreciate sorting of serial; was unable, with me auld occipital receptors, to get anything from the original likeness

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anterior mech -

the ivory coloured plastic knob marks it as too late for a machine of mcmlviii. knobs remained metal through mcmlix and plastic came in in mcmlx

it is not the commonly seen Competition model front mech but one of the Randonneur iterations. these operate by moving the lever front-to-back rather than inward-outward

Juy catalogue page of mcmlx:

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both clamp-on and braze-on models were produced:

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if the mech were original to the cycle for the mcmlviii date it would be Simplex of Italy, rather than of France. Juy maintained a facility in Italy during the mcml's.

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bb spindle -

there is a technique termed "hard chroming" to add metal back to the bearing races which can then be reground

had this done once on a Verot model 34 spindle. it came out beautifully. unable to comment upon cost as it was performed on a favour exchange basis with a cycle customer whose employment was at a shop which repaired "rotating equipment"

probably have an official ATALA cottered bottom bracket assembly in excellent nick within me parts drawers. it will be a bit later than the bicycle if that is OK.

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frame ends -

since bow & stern not a match it raises question of "is fork original?"

crown is an Agrati pattern but not the one normally associated with the "BRIANZA" pattern lug ensemble

it is a close cousin of the pattern seen on Galmozzi and Ideor cycles of the late nineteen fifties and early nineteen sixties

the integral seating pad for a brake caliper is a feature not previously encountered

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stem & bar -

the Tecno Tubo Torino stem you propose to employ has a clamp size of 26.0mm whilst the Belri bar is likely to have a centre diameter of 25.0mm

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Jesper

Finally riding a big boys bike
"anterior mech -

the ivory coloured plastic knob marks it as too late for a machine of mcmlviii. knobs remained metal through mcmlix and plastic came in in mcmlx

if the mech were original to the cycle for the mcmlviii date it would be Simplex of Italy, rather than of France. Juy maintained a facility in Italy during the mcml's."
If at first I don't succeed.....
Mech with metal knob and of Italian manufacture. Only one I have that I took off the late 50s Lygie (maybe 1960, serial?). Forgot I had gotten rid of that frame; that's where my cottered crankset went to also), my green and yellow Lygie/Ligie frame is newer ('69).
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"bb spindle -

there is a technique termed "hard chroming" to add metal back to the bearing races which can then be reground

had this done once on a Verot model 34 spindle. it came out beautifully. unable to comment upon cost as it was performed on a favour exchange basis with a cycle customer whose employment was at a shop which repaired "rotating equipment"

probably have an official ATALA cottered bottom bracket assembly in excellent nick within me parts drawers. it will be a bit later than the bicycle if that is OK."
If it fits, all is good! I'd rather buy from a mate than on ebay! Let me know, thanks.
"---frame ends -

since bow & stern not a match it raises question of "is fork original?"

crown is an Agrati pattern but not the one normally associated with the "BRIANZA" pattern lug ensemble

it is a close cousin of the pattern seen on Galmozzi and Ideor cycles of the late nineteen fifties and early nineteen sixties

the integral seating pad for a brake caliper is a feature not previously encountered"
I questioned that myself. Figured the rear d/o would definitely be Campy. I am not familiar enough on that topic. Researching 50's Atala bikes I came across one that might help me with the livery design, but different lugs. Fork crown had 2 slots on the side as opposed to my fork with one slot cut-out. That example also had a Campy rear d/o with adjuster.
"---stem & bar -

the Tecno Tubo Torino stem you propose to employ has a clamp size of 26.0mm whilst the Belri bar is likely to have a centre diameter of 25.0mm.----"
This I knew, thus my shim reference which I have successfully done before. I found my Belleri stem, but I thought it was a 22.0mm quill. My notes show it to be 25.0mm clamp with 22.14mm (near quill top) to 22.17mm (just above slots) so I know I measured it previously to verify if it was for a French steerer like my ATAX, AVA, and Pivo stems. It should work fine; now to find out where I put that bar to match it.
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I am still digging through my parts to find a proper seat post. I cannot find the '69 Lygie frame's post that I pulled from it. They are the same size seat tube ID; the Atala steel post fits similarly into the Lygie tube.

Shot of the '69 Lygie (serial 69V0187, it had 60s components installed) for comparison to the Atala. That is why I thought the Atala might be a 60s frame, but the '69 Lygie also looked nearly identical to the late 50s Lygie frame excepting decals.
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