Bluebird Technical Discussion 1935-1937

Discussion in 'Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965' started by Freqman1, Apr 12, 2016.

  1. #1 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Riding a '37 Dayton Super Streamline

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    The Elgin Bluebird is perhaps the most iconic prewar bicycle there is. Yet, it seems, there is a lot we don't know about these bikes. This thread is for technical discussions to try and get at some of the nuances of these bikes. So I'll start off first by re-hashing some of what we went over in other threads. Below are pics of the underneath of both my original BB and Extra Crispy (EC) (my project bird). Joe B. theorizes that the first bikes had these two welds. Additionally both of my bikes have straight (not dogleg) crank arms, the early seat post design (not reinforced-a fatty), and neither have alemite fittings in the bottom bracket. The serial number on my original paint bike is N126869 and EC is 128124 and both have "B10" stamped separately. Redline1968's bike has the alemite fittings, evidently no welds underneath tank, and is a darker blue. Serial is N153133 with "B11". Obviously a later bike but does this represent a change somewhere in '35 or is it a '36 model?

    At some point I hope we can gather enough information and reach consensus in order to produce a monograph on these bikes. Anyone having a '35-37 ONLY please feel free to share as much as you have on these bikes. V/r Shawn

    DSC_1175 - Copy.JPG DSC_1264 - Copy.JPG
     
  2. #2 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe

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    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg It's not later it's the same 1935. I have no neck reinforcements and here evidence of N in the numbers indicates 35. This blue was reapplied by the owner who bought the bike originally. It's quite Possibly yours were built by another employee who used this technique of brazing since they were hand built. Just in case Here are some pics I previously posted to help you in your quest.
     
  3. #3 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Riding a '37 Dayton Super Streamline

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    I've asked the mods to delete the post. Three posts in and already someone is trying to sidetrack the discussion by adding no value. Let's keep this about the '35-7 Bluebird. If you want to discuss the merits of another brand, model, etc... Please feel free to start your own thread. V/r Shawn
     
  4. #4 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Cruisin' on my Bluebird

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    Please refer to last sentence.
     
  5. #5 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Riding a '37 Dayton Super Streamline

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    I doubt this was an employee doing his own thing as my bikes are 1255 bikes apart by serial #. This looks to have been a standard thing for the early bikes as Chris' features these same two welds according to Joe B. I would like to know what the serial on Chris' bike is? V/r Shawn
     
  6. #6 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe

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    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg In keeping with the technical features of the bike I've done some measurements in areas including the spposed reinforcement above the tank seat tube. This is what I found upper seat tube is 1 1/16 and the lower tube below the tank is also 1 1/16 inches. The front lower is 1 1/8" pics for references. based on my measurements there is no change for the fatty tube change over.
     
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  7. #7 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Moderator Staff Member

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    dsc_1264-copy-jpg.jpg

    The blobs are brass, not welds, no?...if you're concerned with technical accuracy...
     
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  8. #8 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Cruisin' on my Bluebird

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    Im ready to learn! Ill go take some pics right now of all 3 birds. This is gonna be a great thread! Right on!
     
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  9. #9 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Cruisin' on my Bluebird

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    Robertriley's 1935 Bluebird

    Head tube protrusion passed the stamped sheet metal
    N prefix serial number
    Non re-inforced seat tube junction
    Brazed points at bottom of monocoque tank
    Remnants of French Blue
    No alemite kit installed on BB
    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
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  10. #10 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Cruisin' on my Bluebird

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    Nates BB hints of red and cream possibly 37

    No head tube protrusion
    No braze points under monocoque tank
    Has seat tube re-inforcement
    Has alemite kit
    B - prefix at serial number
    No remnants of French Blue

    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
    #10 Joe Buffardi, Apr 12, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2016
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  11. #11 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Cruisin' on my Bluebird

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    My BB which may be a late 36 or early 37

    No braze points under tank
    Re-inforced seat post
    Alemite kit installed
    No headtube protrusion
    Signs of gunmetal remnants on the bottom bracket
    A - prefix at serial number
    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
    #11 Joe Buffardi, Apr 12, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2016
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  12. #12 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Riding my '38 Deluxe Bluebird

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    From what i have visually seen on the birds is on the SN B10 B12 B11 are all very close in age as i have come to the thought that A is the first year of Westfield made elgins B is year 2 and the digits after the letter is the month it was made in. So I think all these bikes were made in late 35 and sold in 36 due to the months they were made. Nick.


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  13. #13 Posted Apr 12, 2016

    Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe

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    Are you inferencing that the 36 all had no reinforcements and that the brazing is the ultimate sign for a 35. I have to disagree from other people which I know are very knowledgable have pointed out the color and reinforcement changes were a 36's the brazing serves no purpose other than a assembly technique. I have no explanation on the fittings other than they were installed on the late 35's due to the changes. The n code prefix is 35. Whith the alpha numeric change indicates a company change and points to a time after 35 say 36. The B-10 11 12 prefixes are interesting. probably wrong but I feel the represents the month of manufacture since it was introduced 3 months of 35. I.e. B-10 could represent October 1935 and so on.
     
    #13 redline1968, Apr 12, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2016
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  14. #14 Posted Apr 13, 2016

    I live for the CABE

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    Lurking and learning. Still on the hunt for my 1st Bluebird. Thanks guys, great thread. Keep it going.
     
  15. #15 Posted Apr 13, 2016

    Riding a '37 Dayton Super Streamline

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    I'm inclined to agree with Redline here. "N" indicates 1935, "A" 1936, and "B" 1937 according to Mr. Columbia's (Ken) site. This said it would appear that somewhere late '35 Westfield stopped the welds/brazing on the bottom of the tank and added the alemite fittings to the bottom bracket. Joe thinks his is a late '36 which the "B12", if indicating month, would confirm. I would like to see some bikes with lower "B" markings so we could get a feel if this is a month indicator or maybe model? V/r Shawn
     
  16. #16 Posted Apr 13, 2016

    Finally riding a big boys bike

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    Hey tanks for the tread...i've got 35 i do believe and the serial number is B98 ( this number is on top of this other number) N11857... 031.JPG 034.JPG 037.JPG 038.JPG
     
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  17. #17 Posted Apr 13, 2016

    Riding a '37 Dayton Super Streamline

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  18. #18 Posted Apr 13, 2016

    Finally riding a big boys bike

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    Shawn....the frame is in storage at this moment in time...i can snap a pix when it begins to be a little lighter out and i'm finishing some cartooning that needs to go out the bathroom window to- daze...
     
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  19. #19 Posted Apr 13, 2016

    Cruisin' on my Bluebird

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    Oh and dont forget about the head tube protrusion past the sheetmetal. This may be a first production style considering all the later models dont have this feature.
     
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  20. #20 Posted Apr 13, 2016

    Cruisin' on my Bluebird

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    sweet.....
     
    #20 THE STIG, Apr 13, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016