When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Bluebird Technical Discussion 1935-1937

#eBayPartner    Most Recent BUY IT NOW Items Listed on eBay
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
eBay Auction Picture
View attachment 708341
1937 og color. 1937 "B" serial number. But also a 1935 "N" serial number? And a "B11" any thoughts?

Hi,

Below is a link to some work I did on dating Westfield made bicycles. Post 11 is the most useful here:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1933-1945.100743/

B11 is a BB code for a frame made in November 1935

N162009 is a frame number from very late in 1935.

For some reason, several N 1935 'Bluebirds', were renumberd with later frame numbers (those in brackets in my table), normally A for 1936. These may have been 'spare' frames that never left the factory, or unsold dealer samples, returned and refurbished to the new year colour etc. This seems to have been a unique 'Bluebird' thing, I've not seen it on any other Westfields.

B22978 is the first from 1937 that I've seen this happen to.

Best Regards,

Adrian
 
And mike wolfes...https://www.facebook.com/AmericanPickerMikeWolfe/posts/2033591046667940:0

... So .. what is this contraption hanging in the Picker's Nashville store? ...

DSCN1465.JPG
 
Thank you for documenting this Adrian.

740018CA-B83B-438B-9FC4-B3F4ED0A81FA.jpeg




5E6A2B2E-DDD0-4266-8A83-1840937D5244.jpeg


8B173838-E399-4CFE-9921-88A4F73E3A21.jpeg

Dear All,

Please find below Version 1 of a listing of known serial numbers and details of around 200 Westfields built between 1933 and 1945.

This has come from several sources, with various CABE members kindly supplying lists of their own, for which I thank them, as well as my own internet searches here and elsewhere.

The searches on CABE were mainly carried out using the Keywords ‘Columbia 1933’, ‘Columbia 1934’ etc., between 1933 and 1945. I estimate this led to me reading around 1000 topics, and 5000 e-mails for this first list. When I’ve recovered (!), I may go back and search again with other keywords (Elgin, Bluebird etc.). This could explain why your bike is not here if you look for it. If it is not here, or if it is, and you can supply further details, then please let me know here or by PM for a Version 2 list.

Since this is a Version 1, it is not perfect, and is here for corrections and additions to be made. I am not an expert in Westfields, you have (luckily!) Mr. Columbia for that. I was more interested in the frame and BB numbers for dating, but it made sense to collect the other information at the same time.

Types of bicycle are described as accurately as I can from the text, if you have a better identification, again, let me know.

Similarly, I know there are ‘collector’s terms’ for some of the different types of chainwheel. Where I know what these are, I have used them, otherwise they are my own description. Let me know, and I will happily change them to the accepted form.

Where I have not been able to verify information (even if I could guess what it was) then I have put N/K for not known. I hope you will fill in some of these spaces.

BB Codes; These appear to be year/month dating codes for the production of the frame.

A = 1934

B = 1935

C = 1936

D = 1937

E = 1938

F = 1939

G = 1940

H = 1941

I = Not Used

J = 1942

K = 1943

L = 1944

With the number 1 to 12 following indicating the month.

They start at A in 1934, and end in December 1944with some of these frames being built up in early 1945. I have not yet found an ‘A1’, but it may not exist, there is no reason to suppose they started the year with this coding system. But I would love to see one.

When placed in serial number order, the BB codes sometimes dart around a bit, but generally increase. This is probably due to the frames being held in stock after manufacture, then the serial number being stamped on when they started to be built up, from conversation with Mr. Columbia, just before the frame was painted. This is most obvious at year ends, where frames coded, for example L12 (December 1944) have early 1945 serial numbers.

The Prefix letter originally started out as a dating letter (L = 1933, etc.) but during wartime production this was not strictly adhered to, probably to help identify different customers or contracts. In 1943, which should have been prefix G, we see MG, MC, and W (and possibly others, yet to be identified due to the small sample here). The BB numbers remain constant through this period helping to accurately date the frames with unusual serial number.

I hope this is of some use to you.

Best Regards,

Adrian

View attachment 393531View attachment 393532View attachment 393533View attachment 393534View attachment 393535
 
Last edited:
Hi, @Whizzerpro

Wow, that's pretty chewed up!

We agree that the first letter is an A, and the first two numbers are 267

So, we know that A is 1936, and the last number issued in 1936 was A266083, therefore your number can't be a late 1936 number with six digits, since 267xxx would be higher than 266083. So it must be an early 1936 number with five digits, A267xx.

A45510 is the nearest 1936 five digit Bluebird frame I have recorded to yours, Post 11 in the link below. The last photo is of the serial number, which is useful for comparison.


To me, your fourth digit could be a 5 or 6. I personally think it's a 5, but you may be able to see better since you have the bike. The last number we agree is a 1.

The other thing the photo tells us is that Bluebirds had their frame manufacture date codes in an unusual place at this time, upside down, and to the lower right of the serial number. Comparing positions, we can see yours, which looks (to me) like B11, which would be in a reasonable sequence for Axxxxx.

So, my best guess is:

B11, frame made November 1935. A26751, frame built up very early 1936.

But maybe I'm wrong also (-:

Best Regards,

Adrian
 
Hi, @Whizzerpro

Wow, that's pretty chewed up!

We agree that the first letter is an A, and the first two numbers are 267

So, we know that A is 1936, and the last number issued in 1936 was A266083, therefore your number can't be a late 1936 number with six digits, since 267xxx would be higher than 266083. So it must be an early 1936 number with five digits, A267xx.

A45510 is the nearest 1936 five digit Bluebird frame I have recorded to yours, Post 11 in the link below. The last photo is of the serial number, which is useful for comparison.


To me, your fourth digit could be a 5 or 6. I personally think it's a 5, but you may be able to see better since you have the bike. The last number we agree is a 1.

The other thing the photo tells us is that Bluebirds had their frame manufacture date codes in an unusual place at this time, upside down, and to the lower right of the serial number. Comparing positions, we can see yours, which looks (to me) like B11, which would be in a reasonable sequence for Axxxxx.

So, my best guess is:

B11, frame made November 1935. A26751, frame built up very early 1936.

But maybe I'm wrong also (-:

Best Regards,

Adrian
Hi Adrian. Thank you for your information about this frame. It's interesting and helpful. I agree with you about the serial number A26751 but the other number looks to me like an upside down 10, with the zero over the top of the 5. Maybe i'm wrong. :)
 
Back
Top