Braze repair

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Benryannj

Look Ma, No Hands!
Aug 13, 2019
39
42
New Jersey
I'm currently restoring a 1930's Colson rear steer tandem and this one is fighting me all the way.. It's in pretty bad shape and I've been slowly working on it, but the front of the frame was bent from a crash and in the process of straightening one of the braze joints has cracked.

Does anyone have any advice on how to repair this type of frame damage? I've done some MIG welding the past but never brazing so I'm not sure how big a job this would be or whether I should try and find someone close by (I'm in North New Jersey), that could help.

Thanks in advance for any ideas/help!

Ben

IMG_2809 copy.jpg
 
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49autocycledeluxe

I live for the CABE
May 29, 2017
1,530
60
fremont california
I would melt out the brass and weld it.... I know I could weld it, don't know anything about brazing.
 

WetDogGraphix

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jul 29, 2015
3,237
West Coast
I'm currently restoring a 1930's Colson rear steer tandem and this one is fighting me all the way.. It's in pretty bad shape and I've been slowly working on it, but the front of the frame was bent from a crash and in the process of straightening one of the braze joints has cracked.

Does anyone have any advice on how to repair this type of frame damage? I've done some MIG welding the past but never brazing so I'm not sure how big a job this would be or whether I should try and find someone close by (I'm in North New Jersey), that could help.

Thanks in advance for any ideas/help!

Ben

IMG_2809 copy.jpg
That would be easy to repair by Brazing....
 

1motime

I live for the CABE
Aug 7, 2019
1,320
WHERE I CHOOSE TO BE
It was brazed originally. Once there is brass on the surface ( including the ends of tubing) it is very difficult to weld. You would have to remove all metal the brass that was fused to and then the joint would be too large. Take it to a GOOD welder and he can prep and re-braze correctly. Money well spent if you do not have that type of experience
 

Benryannj

Look Ma, No Hands!
Aug 13, 2019
39
42
New Jersey
It was brazed originally. Once there is brass on the surface ( including the ends of tubing) it is very difficult to weld. You would have to remove all metal the brass that was fused to and then the joint would be too large. Take it to a GOOD welder and he can prep and re-braze correctly. Money well spent if you do not have that type of experience
Yep, this is likely the way I’ll go... just need to find someone that can do it..


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Benryannj

Look Ma, No Hands!
Aug 13, 2019
39
42
New Jersey
Brazing is very easy to do.
Go to YouTube and learn how to braze.
I use 54% silver solder. In a dark room, use an ultraviolet light, to see the extent of the crack.
I'm tempted to give it a go with one of the Bernzomatix torches... given the original brazes were brass, should I try and repair with brass brazing or would silver solder be ok?
 
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buickmike

I live for the CABE
May 26, 2014
1,226
Hammond Indiana
My 36 roadmaster had a separation at one brace joint so I took it my old time radiator shop. He redid bad joint in regular brass then he said he ran out of rod and did the bottom joint at bracket in silver rod . Wasn't cheap but that's all I could do.
 

Sevenhills1952

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Dec 20, 2018
654
68
US
Have you ever soldered anything? Two things in common with both...CLEAN!
Easy fix if you have equipment. Simply clean old mess off carefully, grinder, file, etc. Then wire wheel that area. You want nice, clean shiny metal. You want frame clamped so it's perpendicular...an upside down "T". Oxy/acetylene small tip, adjusted flame properly, you'll see when adding oxygen proper clean flame.
(Practice on something similar first)!
You want both tubes heated just enough to start flow, flux coated brazing rods. Once flowing keep it moving all around.
Most important...1) CLEAN 2) JUST enough heat
When tubing JUST barely starts red, melt brass into it and move flame around.

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1motime

I live for the CABE
Aug 7, 2019
1,320
WHERE I CHOOSE TO BE
Silver solder is not as strong as brass (brazing). Brass is not as strong as welding. Committed to brazing since that it how it was originally constructed. The steel tubing is "contaminated" with brass. The photos of the needed repair show this is a top tube to seat post tube connection. Very structural area of the frame and it's a tandem also! Silver solder is more for trim or more detailed work and is not designed for this amount of stress. This repair demands as much strength as possible!
 
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Sevenhills1952

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Dec 20, 2018
654
68
US
I wouldn't solder anything except wires! Brazing is ok and pretty strong. If you've never done it, practice on scrap or better yet a cheap worthless bike. Then test the strength. I made a tall circus bike years ago with tubing, a bender and brazed every joint. It was fine. It has to be clean though.

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Henryford2

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jan 28, 2017
310
68
North Ridgeville , OH
Silver brazing and silver solder are two different processes and materials. The Harris material posted above has a melting temperature of approx. 1255-1305 F, with a tensile strength of approx. 40,000-50,000 psi. Cleanliness and joint design are important. The short attached article can help in your choice of materials and processes. Enjoy
 

Rivnut

I live for the CABE
Nov 24, 2012
1,378
Shawnee, United States
Have it done correctly. I took this Elgin to a friend of mine who owns an automotive restoration business.








IMG_20190213_111701596.jpg




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Rivnut

I live for the CABE
Nov 24, 2012
1,378
Shawnee, United States
Kansas City, Kansas.
I'd bet that anyone who does auto restorations can braze. Look for someone in your area who has the four year auto restoration degree from McPherson College, McPherson, Kansas. One of Jay Leno's go-to places; he's a big contributor and supporter. Google it.
 

GiovanniLiCalsi

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Jun 29, 2012
4,028
Alameda, California
Silver solder is stronger than brazing, when you have capillaries to fill and when you consider the lower temperature, it’s a better way to go. I have been silver soldering for many years.
 
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Andrew Gorman

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jun 15, 2008
3,016
Pasadena (Hastings Ranch), United States
Just find a bicycle frame builder near you. They will know what to do and be sympathetic towards your project.
 
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