Cadre et fourche de piste?

[dnc1]

Another find from the "Velo Vintage Anjou" bikejumble.
It's obviously not a 'Colnago' pista frame, but what marque might it be?

I think I've covered every angle, lol!
Any thoughts and information gratefully received and appreciated.
Thanks,
Darren.

 

[MauriceMoss]

The lugs, swagged seat stay caps, numbers stamped on the dropout, mixed domed/fish mouth ends, all point towards this being a Bertin.
Something along the lines of this:

More here.

Also see this one.

 

[bulldog1935]

Darren, you are missing one view - Many times, the bottom of the BB shell can help

Please note, not suggesting your frame is Viner, but pointing out the BB shell cut-out on this example

but you may want to do some more searching on Vicini (still making bikes today) because an oblique view in the following photoset suggests the lug cut-outs may match yours
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Vicini.htm

Both Italian and French BB have RH threads on both sides, so you'll need to gauge thread pitch.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bottombrackets.html
If it has a Swiss LH thread on right side of BB, it's a French frame.
Relentless Italians stuck with right-side RH Ital thread until ISIS.

that's also a Very Italian fork, though the French more-and-more mimicked Italian in later years.
(even on pista bikes with steep head angle, French traditionally like fork offset)

 

[juvela]

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Hello Darren,

Thank you for all of the additional pictures.

The initial two were not enough.

Lugset is BOCAMA Competition 76 with cutout nr. R3.

This seat stay cap usually indicates a frankish product.

Markings on dropout - 60 is size in cms, upside down 8 is a date. Me guess would be MCMLXXVIII.

Seat binder is ALGI.

Suspect gaulic heritage. Tube diameters and threading of shell & steerer will be metric.

Alerted my friend MauriceMoss who shall be able to enlighten us all...in detail.

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[juvela]

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Ooops!

Only now able to see Maurice's terrific post.

Perhaps there was a delay in its appearance due to him being a new member.

Thank you for all of this great information Maurice!

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[dnc1]

Thanks to all for helping out, @bulldog1935, @juvela and especially @MauriceMoss. That's a great first posting!
I'm thinking of going 100% French on this build, or would all Campagnolo be appropriate for a bicycle of this era?

 

[bulldog1935]

you're going to have to measure and find out.
Tough to beat a 141 bcd Campy Pista crank, and you can probably match the ISO taper spindle to whatever BB thread you need.

fwiw, I rode 35,000 mi on my Rigida rims from 1978

 

[juvela]

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Hello again Darren,

If it were me I would consider 1978 a "hard" date and not employ any fittings of a later time.

Replacement Bertin transfers are readily available.

You could go all Campag if you wished.

It is more mentally and visually interesting to go with french fittings as there are multiple quality time appropriate options at each point on the machine...

The Bertin numbering system was to place the size or serial above the axle slot in the left dropout and the date (year) below the axle slot.

Here is an interesting one on a frame Bertin did for Urago - the two owners were friendly and there was cooperation. They also operated in opposite corners of the country so competition not a big issue.

The letter U here indicates it was done for Urago and the numeral fifty-nine is the year of manufacture.

In case any readers are unfamiliar with it there is an excellent enthusiast site for Bertin bicycles with a great deal of history information:

https://bertinclassiccycles.wordpress.com/

Thanks once again to Maurice for his outstanding help!

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[bertinjim]

dnc1-

Your "Colnago" is a late 1970s (78?) Bertin C 56 built in Vitus 888. There is a link here with example photos and details. Same geometry as the C 38 but less expensive tubing.

 

[bulldog1935]

dnc1-

Your "Colnago" is a late 1970s (78?) Bertin C 56 built in Vitus 888. There is a link here with example photos and details. Same geometry as the C 38 but less expensive tubing.

our friend has a bare frame and fork - can you tell him the threading on everything to get him started?
maybe @MauriceMoss ?