Campagnolo "Record" front deralleur, A short dissertation of

[juvela]

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thanks so much for this wonderful thread and all of the research work!

have often wondered about this subject but never researched it so a definite hit with me.

minor note on the Nuovo Valentino model -

had estimated launch between 1978 and 1980 but had no hard information

mech created as a companion for the 980 and 990 model gear ensembles

here is an illustration from Campag -

the forum had a discussion thread on a Bianchi model 980 bicycle of ca. 1982 which is kitted with this mech -

My First BIANCHI... | Vintage Lightweight Bicycles

Attached are two photos from the ebay listing of the bike I just bought. I hope to pick it up on Sunday, but the seller needs to get back to me about that. Yes...it needs quite a bit of work, but it's a Celeste Bianchi...:cool: which I've wanted for years now! Rarely seen in my size, this will...

thecabe.com

1982 Bianchi 980...Before and After...​

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[Jesper]

11th generation "Record" 4 hole cage unit

This unit has an upper control arm that it slimmer than arms used before and after its presumed period of manufacture (year is unknown, but c.1977-1980). The 4 hole cage unit has been assumed to only have been in production for approximately only one year, except now I have definitely found 2 different versions , and possibly 3 different versions to exist. The 4 hole cage unit in general was avaiiable from c.1977 to at least 1979 and has been readily available online, thus I believe it was in production much longer than assumed without definitive proof otherwise.
I have previously categorized the "original" 4 hole cage unit with "slim" arms as the 10th gen. "Record" unit, but I have found that both "slim" and "standard" upper control arm units exist while both having the narrow clamp band.
I am now considering the "standard" arm unit to be the 10th gen. unit, and the "slim" arm unit to be the 11th gen. unit.
This unit as obtained has aluminum clamp hardware instead of steel. It is a very lightweight 88g +/-.5g. It is unknown if the clamp hardware is original or aftermarket.
For more photo examples please reference post #'s 6 and 7 where this specific unit was designated as the 10th gen. "Record" unit.

Commonalities:
5th, 7th, 8th, 10th, and 11th gen. units have no stop.
6th through 11th gen. units have aluminum arms.
8th through 11th gen. units have circlip retaining upper arm.
10th and 11th gen. units have 4 hole cage.
10th and 11th gen. units have narrow clamp band.

Left to right: "standard" arm 10th gen. (et al.) & "slim" 11th gen. 4 hole cage/arm assy's:

Left to right: 11th gen. unit aluminum clamp hardware, and 10th gen. (et al.) steel clamp hardware:

 

[Jesper]

@juvela I have no idea as to the connection between the "Nuovo Valentino" and "980" mech. The "980" front and rear derailluers first appeared in the '82 catalog. The "Nuovo Valentino" was definitely introduced prior to 1978 since I have that same unit with the flat arms, no lip on the cage, and a "wings" cage logo (kept thinking it had the "globe" logo since I had not looked at it for ages). I figure it was made sometime c.1976-'77. It would have been the first the Campagnolo with modified the arms' design on any parallelogram style front derailleur, and possibly the first with revised "wings" logo since it was pre-CPSC changes.
It has been said that the "980" units were designated that number due to being first produced and/or released in Sept. 1980 (9th month +'80="980"); never seen any evidence regarding that theory. Both "Valentino" and "Nuovo Valentino" front derailluers, and "Valentino Extra" rear mech were in catalog #18 (1986); also the first year the "990" mech was shown. I have a "990" rear mech paired with a "980" front derailleur as OE on my '86/'87 Bottecchia "Giro". Since the "990" mech (never a front unit?) was introduced c.'85-'86 the name doesn't jive with how the "980" units were named.

 

[Jesper]

@juvela

Here is my 1st gen. "Nuovo Valentino" (?) unit. It does not appear in any catalog. It was removed from a Raleigh "Gran Sport" which had a full "Gran Sport" gruppo excepting the front derailleur (there was no front unit designated as "Gran Sport" at that time). My initial thought was that the derailleur was meant to be designated as the new "Gran Sport" model to be included with the "Gran Sport" gruppo since in the #17 catalog c.1973 (English version copyright 1974) it showed the "Valentino" "matchbox" (old "GS" unit) derailleur as part of the set and the "Record" derailleur as an alternate option. The "Nouvo Gran Sport" rear mech first appeared in that same catalog. The same "Gran Sport" gruppo appeared in the #17a catalog c.1975 again with the "Valentino" "matchbox" unit paired with the "NGS" rear mech, but without showing the "Record" FD as an option. I think Campagnolo was trying to make a distinct "GS" gruppo and developed the revised front unit to complete that set, thus relegating the "Valentino" unit to its own gruppo paired with the "Valentino Extra" rear mech. Since the unit I have was never depicted in a catalog I can't for certain say what its designation was. Given the changes in the #17a Sup. catalog with the old "Record" unit becoming the new "GS" unit; it makes sense that my unit may have gone from being a "GS" unit changing to "Nuovo Valentino" for that catalog supplement. The original "Valentino" "matchbox" unit still existed at that time through to the #18 catalog.

Nuovo Valentino? (c. 1975-1977) (please pardon the "paintwork". It came off the bike that way which was also repainted and rebranded as something it was not) Notice flat arms, cage (pre-CPSC), and "wings" logo (not seen until #17a Sup.).

 

[Jesper]

8th and 9th generation "Record" units

8th gen. "Record" unit (c.1973-1977)
Version has aluminum control arms and upper control arm circlip retainer. It does not have a cable housing stop or "lip" on the outer cage plate Cage has "globe" logo. It is the first version to be shown in a catalog (#17 c.1973; English version copyright 1974) without a cable housing stop and first with the circlip retainer. This is one of the most common versions along with the "Gran Sport"/"Nuovo Gran Sport" (othen mistakenly called by many "Record" and "Nuovo Record") version from the late '70s- mid '80s which was essentially the same as the 8th gen. unit aside from having the "lip" on the outer cage plate and later having the "wings" logo on the cage.

9th gen. "Record" unit (c.1973-?)
I would assume that this unit came about at or about the same time as the 8th gen. unit. It is the same as the 8th gen. unit excepting that the main body incorporates a slotted cable housing stop (see catalog #16 c.1969). It has the circlip retainer which differs it from the 6th gen. unit which also has the slotted stop, but does not have any upper arm retainer. I would presume that manufacture ceased around the same time the that the 10th and 11th gen. units were introduced (c.1977-'78). I would be curious to know if anyone has this unit installed as original equipment on a bike after the CPSC change with the "lipped" cage which may indicate that it may have still been available into the '80s.
(photo credits: Velobase user Gazelleer)

 

[Jesper]

8th generation (?) Braze-on
I stumbled upon a photo of a unit with the braze-on body and the pre-CPSC flat cage plate. I have no idea if it is original or if the cage/arm assembly was merely mounted onto a braze-on body. One possible clue pointing to a modification is the missing circlip, but those are regularly lost upon dismantling for cleaning so not a very strong indicator as to whether the unit is totally original or not.
I have never really been certain when the modern (or early version; pre-WW2?) braze-on tab mount was first introduced. I know Shimano had something in the late 70s-very early 80s, and Campy first shows one in their '82 catalog (I assume they had been making it by at least '81). Is it possible that Campy had one pre-CPSC changes in '77 or earlier? Did Shimano themselves introduce this feature for their front units as a unique marketing scheme, or did some independent builder rehash an old idea as an improvement of the "French" mount, and when was the French bolt on design first used (I have a 70s Vicini with an original factory French mount and a couple frames and derailleurs custom modified to a French mounting)? Any input regarding this topic would be appreciated.

Unfortunately, there was only on photo. I enlarged a portion for clarity.

(photo credit: alevintagebike; edited by Jesper)

 

[juvela]

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one check you may wish to make is how the pivot housing of the cage assembly fits to the pivot post

note that in this image there is space between the rear of the pivot housing and the edge of the recess which accepts the circlip

you could compare this with the last generation mech prior to the introduction of the circlip where the pivot housing always "wanted" to back off the rear of the pivot stud


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[Jesper]

@juvela I also thought that there was excess space between the arm and the circlip groove that might have indicated exchange of cage assemblies, but upon examining 3 of my '73-'77 units (known to be original and unmodified) I found that they all had spacing which appears to be equal to the braze-on example shown; approx. 1mm. (Note: the photo of the braze-on unit is taken at an angle which does not allow you to see all of the pivot pin exposure. Also, the arm is not pushed all the way against the main body which would have exposed even more of the pin.
I do not own the braze-on unit, and although I was tempted to buy it (reasonable price), it sold while I was viewing it to determine any diffferences from other pre-'78 units.
It made me curious if I have any frames that have an FD tab and are verified as being from the late 70s or earlier, but most of my frames during the time frame are hard to date to a specific year, and the ones I can verify (per catologs, date codes, anecdotal evidence, etc.) are all clamp-on or French mount FDs.

Clamp-on model '73-'77:

 

[ccdc.1]

I have an admission to make, which may make me a pariah in the future...if the next generation has the patience and passion to try to figure out the dates and times and iterations of Campagnolo parts in, say, 2033 (the centennial of Campagnolo's going into business).
1) I have a Campagnolo four-hole front derailleur cage (1979 one-year-only) with black Super Record arms (1982 introduction) on a braze-on mount (later intro as well)
2) I also have a first generation Super Record rear derailleur faceplate on a later Super Record body with the return spring that is non-removable and with the 2nd version Super Record cage.
Neither one of these is original, nor could they have been...but they sure look it, as the assemblages were made with care and professionalism. They were purpose-built for my use, just because I like them that way. I hereby apologize to the poor person that finds these after I am gone and spends so much time scratching their head that they pull their hair out trying to make it make sense. I figure it is fair enough revenge for all the time I spent trying to make sense of the first generation Record crankset I once had that was designed for 144BCD chainrings (the first gen cranks were from 1958, while 144BCD chainrings weren't introduced until 1966)....for the record (pun intended) I never did make sense of the crank, but I did make some cents off of it!

 

[Jesper]

I have an admission to make, which may make me a pariah in the future...if the next generation has the patience and passion to try to figure out the dates and times and iterations of Campagnolo parts in, say, 2033 (the centennial of Campagnolo's going into business).
1) I have a Campagnolo four-hole front derailleur cage (1979 one-year-only) with black Super Record arms (1982 introduction) on a braze-on mount (later intro as well)
2) I also have a first generation Super Record rear derailleur faceplate on a later Super Record body with the return spring that is non-removable and with the 2nd version Super Record cage.
Neither one of these is original, nor could they have been...but they sure look it, as the assemblages were made with care and professionalism. They were purpose-built for my use, just because I like them that way. I hereby apologize to the poor person that finds these after I am gone and spends so much time scratching their head that they pull their hair out trying to make it make sense. I figure it is fair enough revenge for all the time I spent trying to make sense of the first generation Record crankset I once had that was designed for 144BCD chainrings (the first gen cranks were from 1958, while 144BCD chainrings weren't introduced until 1966)....for the record (pun intended) I never did make sense of the crank, but I did make some cents off of it!

No apologies needed; I have done the same for my own purposes.
Yet, Campy has been woefully negligent to accurately document modifications regarding the evolution of their parts.