Italian threaded bottom bracket shell. Fork has an old looking Columbus stamp. Bb shell cutouts look like some Pinnarello's I've seen. Serial # is 69736. 06 on the other side. 27.0 seat tube. Campagnolo dropouts front and rear. Campy front d braze on mount. Wheel size seems to be 700c. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
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Can anyone I.D. this Italian racer?
- Thread starter twig
- Start date
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Thanks! Good info.
juvela
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
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forwarded the inquiry on to member @MauriceMoss
he reports it to be a Fiorelli product although it may have been otherwise badged
Maurice's messge -
"Hard to say what mystery frame was labeled originally, but it is definitely a Fiorelli made frame. I think the Maserati (MT-3?) came with a metal head badge (and also had a slightly different fork crown), so it's likely the mystery frame was badged Coppi or just Fiorelli, both of which came with head tube transfers/decals (somewhere likely around early-mid 70s).
I've never been able to figure out their numbering scheme but I don't think 69 refers to a year as I've seen numbers starting with 83, 90, 93, 03, 18 etc, all on frames from the 70s. Who knows, maybe the numbers didn't even mean anything.
Here's one example (the sadly lost some of its transfers
"
all credit to our Masterful Maurice!
here is an illustration from Bertin showing the frame's fork crown pattern...courtesy of Daniel Rebour...
forwarded the inquiry on to member @MauriceMoss
he reports it to be a Fiorelli product although it may have been otherwise badged
Maurice's messge -
"Hard to say what mystery frame was labeled originally, but it is definitely a Fiorelli made frame. I think the Maserati (MT-3?) came with a metal head badge (and also had a slightly different fork crown), so it's likely the mystery frame was badged Coppi or just Fiorelli, both of which came with head tube transfers/decals (somewhere likely around early-mid 70s).
I've never been able to figure out their numbering scheme but I don't think 69 refers to a year as I've seen numbers starting with 83, 90, 93, 03, 18 etc, all on frames from the 70s. Who knows, maybe the numbers didn't even mean anything.
Here's one example (the sadly lost some of its transfers
all credit to our Masterful Maurice!
here is an illustration from Bertin showing the frame's fork crown pattern...courtesy of Daniel Rebour...
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juvela
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
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the frame's lug pattern appears it may be one of the variations of the NERVEX Professional
this pattern was offered by its maker both with and without the reinforcing lip and with or without cutouts
however Prugnat offered a very similar pattern in its S serie -
[numerous variations]
BOCAMA did a familiar shape with its Competition 82 pattern -
[also offered with cutouts]
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the bottom bracket shell should measure 70mm in width
the threading is 36.0mm X 24TPI; both sides are right hand thread
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Maurice in his message mentions the marques Fiorelli, Coppi and Maserati
another marque which is owned by Fiorelli is that of Vittoria
so in case you would like to order transfers for the frame you have several choices!
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the frame's lug pattern appears it may be one of the variations of the NERVEX Professional
this pattern was offered by its maker both with and without the reinforcing lip and with or without cutouts
however Prugnat offered a very similar pattern in its S serie -
[numerous variations]
BOCAMA did a familiar shape with its Competition 82 pattern -
[also offered with cutouts]
---
the bottom bracket shell should measure 70mm in width
the threading is 36.0mm X 24TPI; both sides are right hand thread
---
Maurice in his message mentions the marques Fiorelli, Coppi and Maserati
another marque which is owned by Fiorelli is that of Vittoria
so in case you would like to order transfers for the frame you have several choices!
-----
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juvela
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
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hello again twig,
forgot to mention above that with your location in taterland one likely importer/distributor for the machine would have been the John ("Jack") W. Murphy Co. located in San Francisco on Shipley Street
they were an agent for both the Fiorelli and Coppi badges and served the territory of the western U.S.
Jack was a machine tool guy by trade from Vallejo, California who just happened to be fluent in Italian so his bicycle importation business offered a variety of products from that land...
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hello again twig,
forgot to mention above that with your location in taterland one likely importer/distributor for the machine would have been the John ("Jack") W. Murphy Co. located in San Francisco on Shipley Street
they were an agent for both the Fiorelli and Coppi badges and served the territory of the western U.S.
Jack was a machine tool guy by trade from Vallejo, California who just happened to be fluent in Italian so his bicycle importation business offered a variety of products from that land...
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Wow. Incredible. Thank you and Maurice so much for taking the time to give me such a detailed description. I don't know much about Coppi Fiorelli so I'm looking forward to doing a little research. I am no longer in Idaho (taterland lol). I'm in Northern Indiana. I found this frame buried away covered in dust at the bike shop I work at. I found the fork somewhere else. I couldn't help appreciating the frameset's quality. It is unfortunately too big for me so I might sell it for the shop on eBay.
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juvela
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
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as Maurice pointed out in his message it is likely to have been badged either as Coppi or as Fiorelli but not as Maserati due to the fact that the Maserati came with a metal headplate which was affixed with fasteners.
the Coppi and Fiorelli bicycles of this era received a head transfer rather than a headplate, as seen in Maurice's photos.
this situation also eliminates the possibility that it could have been badged as a Vittoria.
of course this statement assumes that the lack of fastener holes in the frame is an original state of affairs.
however, since it is a respray there is the possibility that headplate fastener holes may have been filled in prior to the present respray.
there are two Coppi marques; the one manufactured by Fiorelli is simply "Coppi" while a second one manufactured by Masciaghi is "Fausto Coppi"
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as Maurice pointed out in his message it is likely to have been badged either as Coppi or as Fiorelli but not as Maserati due to the fact that the Maserati came with a metal headplate which was affixed with fasteners.
the Coppi and Fiorelli bicycles of this era received a head transfer rather than a headplate, as seen in Maurice's photos.
this situation also eliminates the possibility that it could have been badged as a Vittoria.
of course this statement assumes that the lack of fastener holes in the frame is an original state of affairs.
however, since it is a respray there is the possibility that headplate fastener holes may have been filled in prior to the present respray.
there are two Coppi marques; the one manufactured by Fiorelli is simply "Coppi" while a second one manufactured by Masciaghi is "Fausto Coppi"
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