Cicli Vecchi, Roma, Italia

[dnc1]

I have already posted pictures of this new acquisition elsewhere on the Cabe but I thought it deserves a little thread of its own.
I purchased it online from a little secondhand bike shop/café on the backstreets of Bologna, Italy.....

It's badged as a "Cicli Vecchi" from Roma, but I don't think that they built the frame. I have strong suspicions that it may have been built by Antonio Alpi; it bears strong similarities to his work and he was known to build for many retailers of quality machines. I'm guessing overall at a date of very late 1930's to immediately post WW2.

If anyone has any other suggestions I would love to hear them. Here are some images of the lugwork for your perusal and insightful opinion @juvela.....

...anyone recognise the seat tube clamp manufacturer?

Chainset is by 'Magistroni'.....

...it is fluted front and rear on the crank arms.
It came minus pedals, but luckily I had a nice pair of 'Sheffield' sprint pedals in the pile which look great.

It features the legendary/crazy "Campagnolo" 'Cambio Corsa' gear mechanism which is going to take time to master in use!

...it also features a matching front "Campagnolo" Q/R front hub......

Both rims are very early "NISI" aluminium sprint rims.

Handlebars are unbranded aluminium.
Stem is a later period "3ttt" aluminium stem marked 'Made Italy' (not 'Made In Italy') which I think makes it one of their early stems, from circa 1961.

Brakes are also later I think being "Universal" 'Mignon' aluminium calipers front and rear; again any insight will be much appreciated.
The original saddle is by F.N.I. and requires repair but is definitely salvageable; I have temporarily fitted a Brooks B5N model.
Other than a lot of careful cleaning it has required very little work to get back on the road.
Just new tubs and handlebar tape really.

It has wonderful patina and the remains of some old transfers/decals.....

...including a little of a very early "Campagnolo" transfer....

It also retains its wonderful headbadge.....

...and very interestingly, "Via Ravenna 38, Roma" is still there in the same form, as a small shop; but today it, and the adjacent unit, is an opticians.
This opticians is owned and run by a Signor Fulvio Vecchi, and their website says that the family have been in operation from this building since 1938!
I am guessing that he may be the son, grandson or great grandson of this bikes originator. I have reached out to the shop via email and patiently await a reply, and hopefully, further information.

Please feel free to comment as I said above, everyday is a school day!

 

[kccomet]

cool bike, love that cambio, looks like a early frejus seat post collar

 

[dnc1]

cool bike, love that cambio, looks like a early frejus seat post collar

Thanks for the input on the seat collar clamp.
I know I've seen this design before but I couldn't remember where.

 

[fat tire trader]

The seat post clamp was made by Magistroni and were common on many bikes.

 

[dnc1]

The seat post clamp was made by Magistroni and were common on many bikes.

Many thanks.

 

[juvela]

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thank you for sharing this wonderful new find

agree with your idea that marque likely a house brand for a retail cycle shop - a very common practice in Italy

frame bits -

lug pattern appears to be one from Malaguti of Bologna. this firm was a producer of both frames and lugs. here we can see the lugs and crown on a restored Malaguti machine:

two views of the Malaguti premises in the 1930's -

vestige of triangular transfer might be a Falck one

have you been able to discern any details of the oval transfer which formerly abided below the rectangular Vecchi one?

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fittings -

Sheffield pedals fitted from your spares trove appear to be model Corsa Nr. 655 -

here is the Mignon page from the Fratelli Pietra catalogue -

Giostra chainset -

the bottom bracket spindle may be hollow all the way through. wedgebolts are 9.0mm with a "medium" cut.
BCD is 116mm. spindle may be marked "L. SENIOR."

seat binder collar -

this is one of the two generic patterns of stamped collar frequently encountered. the other is the interlocking rings motif. also manufactured with specific cycle names. offered in a choice of two finishes: either chrome or economy zinc.

have never known the maker for these. they may well have been a Giostra product. Giostra is certainly the producer of the high quality forged collars such as the ones seen on Ideor cycles -

If Giostra was indeed the maker of the stamped collars with the grecian zigzag and the interlocking rings motifs their manufacture and use continued on well beyond the cessation of play for the Magistroni marque. Officine Mecchaniche Giostra closed the Magistroni product line in 1965. However, they did not rest but continued right on forward in 1966 with the launch of the Of.Me.Ga./OFMEGA marques which remained active until the final closure in 1985.

Joel of the blackbirds site offers these images of the bicycle's Magistroni headset -

enjoy this new arrival and thank you again for sharing it!

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[dnc1]

Many, many thanks @juvela.
This information certainly opens up many new avenues of research for me to pursue.
I was wondering what tubing may have been used for the very lightweight frame so the possibility of a 'Falck' logo is interesting.
I'll keep you posted when I discover anything.
Thanks again.

 

[juvela]

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have alerted member @MauriceMoss to the bicycle and he shall mosey in anon with far more and better information than i could ever provide


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[juvela]

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Malaguti note -

the frame's seat stay treatment is a Malaguti design innovation

the seat lug here has integral plugs whitch fit down into the seat stays. the stays are trimmed square, perpendicular to the long axis. this speeds and eases the brazing as no separate caps are needed which must be dressed.

this pattern is oft referred to as "Malaguti style" or "Malaguti type" seat stay treatment.

the seat lug of the Agrati/"Bozzi" pattern lug ensemble shows the plugs

pattern a common one on Italian frames of the 1950's and 1960's era. also employed widely by ACER-MEX for Windsor and Carabela badged products

a clearer view is afforded in this image of the Agrati "ROMA" lug ensemble Nr. 000.8020/E/U

Agrati seat lugs could be ordered bare, without binder ears or Malaguti plugs

or they could be ordered with standard binder ears and no Malaguti plus

or they could be ordered without binder ears and with Malaguti plugs

here are two images showing a Malguti seat cluster in bare metal -

factory sponsored a team at one time -

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[dnc1]

Fantastic information @juvela, that last photo of the seat stay cluster from the rear is practically identical to my frameset.
I'm intending to have a good look all over the frameset for any further identifying marks on Wednesday, I'm out riding tomorrow.