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Cleveland Welding S/N Project...See Page 58 Post 576 for chart
- Thread starter AntonyR
- Start date
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AntonyR
Wore out three sets of tires already!
'50 or so, with a '35ish seat.Here is my tank CWC dont' know the year and I am afraid to guess
sailorbenjamin
Finally riding a big boys bike
Ok, here's my contribution. F 13974. It's got a Morrow blackout hub that's stamped 04 36 13 which I think means 4th quarter of '45 making the bike a Christmas present in '45 or a spring '46. The front is a New Departure blackout.
1
1 Speed & No Brakes
Guest
Here is my contribution;26" Mens Special, 1938 CWC Roadmaster, double-bar roadster. Serial # C68814. There is also a 1 with a crown stamped above the serial number. Bike has a New Departure rear hub and a Troxel Deluxe seat. Currently being restored to origional condition.
-Walt
-Walt
Attachments
sailorbenjamin
Finally riding a big boys bike
Here's my other Roadmaster. It's got blackout hubs so it must be war vintage, right? They're ND so no date stamp. The number on the bb shell is A22865 or maybe A23965. The bottom of the middle letters is hard to read.
Found this tucked into the handlebar;
Found this tucked into the handlebar;
Hi SB,
Thanks for adding these two bikes to the serial number database. The general understanding is that the majority of American Bicycle manufacturers ceased bicycle production in early 1942 and did not resume production until after the end of WW2. The specifics with regard to the individual firms are less well known and open to some speculation.
Cleveland Welding announced in trade publication ads that bicycle production ceased in February of 1942 so the company could concentrate on the war effort. Rationing and government mandates regarding raw material allocation were put in place at about the same time but were later relaxed to some degree.
I have yet to find an announcement of when bicycle production resumed at CWC but there is growing evidence that bicycle production at the factory may have restarted as early as 1944.
The evidence is based on several bicycles with recorded serial numbers and features that chronicle production changes.
Prewar Serial Numbers
Regarding serial numbers, the picture that has emerged to date is that most of the prewar production used a serial number system that begins with a letter and is followed by 5 numbers. It appears that these numbers are sequential and the system starts with “A” and proceeds through “K”. The K serial numbers were used in 1941 and then, instead of moving to “L” the system returned to “A”. It is my opinion that these second series “A” bikes and perhaps the end of the “K” series constitute what would be considered the 1942 model line. This line probably entered production in the fall of 1941 and the “A” serialed bikes were likely made at the tail end of 1941 and into the first few months of 1942.
Your lightweight bike is serialed in this second prewar “A” series and bears the mark of late prewar production with regard to black out parts and the warning of substandard chrome. I have recorded several second series “A” CWC bikes in a wide variety of frame styles with numbers ranging from A08469 to A36218. I have pictures of a second, virtually identical blackout lightweight but do not have a serial number for it yet. It features blackout handlebars, so it is likely a bit later than your bike, probably produced after Torrington threw in the towel on chroming.
Logically the second series “A” bikes would be followed by “B” and “C” bikes but to date no bikes so serialed have turned up. It is possible that these serial numbers were used for a few bicycles built by the factory in 1942-1944 for in-house purposes or as prototypes for the reintroduction of a bicycle line following the end of the war. There is at least patent information that proves some bicycle design work was being carried on at CWC in 1943.
Postwar Serial Numbers
This brings us to what I consider the postwar period for CWC although as the dates for some of these bikes become clearer, it is increasingly likely the earliest recoded bikes were built well before the signing of the WW2 armistice.
After appearing to skip the letters “B” and “C”, the first bicycles to be produced after February 1942 used serial number beginning with the letter “D”.
I have recorded six model 2000 delivery bikes (cycle truck style bikes) with serial numbers under “D” 36000. Closely following those bicycles are two girls models with “D” serial numbers. One of these bikes has a blackout Morrow coaster brake dated N3 which is for Aug/Sept/Oct of 1944.
A side note regarding the “D” bikes is that while they no longer have dropouts with the integral drop stand tangs, the dropouts are attached with visible full surround welds similar to the construction methods used on the prewar bikes. Beginning with the “E” series bikes, the dropouts are attached with invisible spot welds and the end of the frame tubes have a clean end showing no weld bead.
Following the “D” bikes, I have recorded two bicycles with “E” serial numbers and then five with an “F” serial number.
The first of the “F” bikes is your bike, F13974, with its Morrow black out hub dated for the last quarter of 1945. Wheels are not necessarily wedded to bikes for life but it is likely both of these bikes are sporting their original wheels. It is also impossible to determine the time between the manufacture of the hub and the time it was built into a wheel and installed at the factory.
What is clear is that if all the “D” and “E” serialed bikes were built out, (the range of earlier and later recoded numbers makes the scenario likely) CWC produced approximately 175,000 bicycles between these two hub dated bicycles and over 200,000 from the earliest recorded delivery model to your 3-Gill. By the late 40’s CWC production was probably close to 500,000 units a year so spreading 200,000 bikes over 1944 and 1945 is a heady return to production but not beyond the realm of believability.
Without factory documentation, the best that can be done is to take all the facts into account and build a believable model of CWC production. As more bikes are recorded and added to the database, it increases the chances that the model is representative of actual CWC production. For those of us that are interested in production dates and numbers (Robert? Brad?) these are heady days indeed! For everyone else this is another post that will help cure insomnia….
Thanks for adding these two bikes to the serial number database. The general understanding is that the majority of American Bicycle manufacturers ceased bicycle production in early 1942 and did not resume production until after the end of WW2. The specifics with regard to the individual firms are less well known and open to some speculation.
Cleveland Welding announced in trade publication ads that bicycle production ceased in February of 1942 so the company could concentrate on the war effort. Rationing and government mandates regarding raw material allocation were put in place at about the same time but were later relaxed to some degree.
I have yet to find an announcement of when bicycle production resumed at CWC but there is growing evidence that bicycle production at the factory may have restarted as early as 1944.
The evidence is based on several bicycles with recorded serial numbers and features that chronicle production changes.
Prewar Serial Numbers
Regarding serial numbers, the picture that has emerged to date is that most of the prewar production used a serial number system that begins with a letter and is followed by 5 numbers. It appears that these numbers are sequential and the system starts with “A” and proceeds through “K”. The K serial numbers were used in 1941 and then, instead of moving to “L” the system returned to “A”. It is my opinion that these second series “A” bikes and perhaps the end of the “K” series constitute what would be considered the 1942 model line. This line probably entered production in the fall of 1941 and the “A” serialed bikes were likely made at the tail end of 1941 and into the first few months of 1942.
Your lightweight bike is serialed in this second prewar “A” series and bears the mark of late prewar production with regard to black out parts and the warning of substandard chrome. I have recorded several second series “A” CWC bikes in a wide variety of frame styles with numbers ranging from A08469 to A36218. I have pictures of a second, virtually identical blackout lightweight but do not have a serial number for it yet. It features blackout handlebars, so it is likely a bit later than your bike, probably produced after Torrington threw in the towel on chroming.
Logically the second series “A” bikes would be followed by “B” and “C” bikes but to date no bikes so serialed have turned up. It is possible that these serial numbers were used for a few bicycles built by the factory in 1942-1944 for in-house purposes or as prototypes for the reintroduction of a bicycle line following the end of the war. There is at least patent information that proves some bicycle design work was being carried on at CWC in 1943.
Postwar Serial Numbers
This brings us to what I consider the postwar period for CWC although as the dates for some of these bikes become clearer, it is increasingly likely the earliest recoded bikes were built well before the signing of the WW2 armistice.
After appearing to skip the letters “B” and “C”, the first bicycles to be produced after February 1942 used serial number beginning with the letter “D”.
I have recorded six model 2000 delivery bikes (cycle truck style bikes) with serial numbers under “D” 36000. Closely following those bicycles are two girls models with “D” serial numbers. One of these bikes has a blackout Morrow coaster brake dated N3 which is for Aug/Sept/Oct of 1944.
A side note regarding the “D” bikes is that while they no longer have dropouts with the integral drop stand tangs, the dropouts are attached with visible full surround welds similar to the construction methods used on the prewar bikes. Beginning with the “E” series bikes, the dropouts are attached with invisible spot welds and the end of the frame tubes have a clean end showing no weld bead.
Following the “D” bikes, I have recorded two bicycles with “E” serial numbers and then five with an “F” serial number.
The first of the “F” bikes is your bike, F13974, with its Morrow black out hub dated for the last quarter of 1945. Wheels are not necessarily wedded to bikes for life but it is likely both of these bikes are sporting their original wheels. It is also impossible to determine the time between the manufacture of the hub and the time it was built into a wheel and installed at the factory.
What is clear is that if all the “D” and “E” serialed bikes were built out, (the range of earlier and later recoded numbers makes the scenario likely) CWC produced approximately 175,000 bicycles between these two hub dated bicycles and over 200,000 from the earliest recorded delivery model to your 3-Gill. By the late 40’s CWC production was probably close to 500,000 units a year so spreading 200,000 bikes over 1944 and 1945 is a heady return to production but not beyond the realm of believability.
Without factory documentation, the best that can be done is to take all the facts into account and build a believable model of CWC production. As more bikes are recorded and added to the database, it increases the chances that the model is representative of actual CWC production. For those of us that are interested in production dates and numbers (Robert? Brad?) these are heady days indeed! For everyone else this is another post that will help cure insomnia….
sailorbenjamin
Finally riding a big boys bike
Thanks! That's about the clearest, most concise answer I've seen regarding 40s Roadmasters. I've heard lots of hints and allegations but this really sums it up.
Here's another detail I could toss in just for interest. Look at the difference between the fillets on the top and middle tubes. I've seen later ('48, I think) advertising extolling 100% electronically welded frames. I guess this is a transitional frame, looks like the main triangle is electronically welded and the rest is fillet brazed. The bottom bracket is all fillet brazed, by the way, even the chainstays.
Here's another detail I could toss in just for interest. Look at the difference between the fillets on the top and middle tubes. I've seen later ('48, I think) advertising extolling 100% electronically welded frames. I guess this is a transitional frame, looks like the main triangle is electronically welded and the rest is fillet brazed. The bottom bracket is all fillet brazed, by the way, even the chainstays.
halfatruck
I live for the CABE
BWbiker
Wore out three sets of tires already!
Yes sir I am taking notes! Brad
halfatruck
I live for the CABE
Looks like the dropouts are attached using a 'spot weld' to me - is this correct? If so where does this place the bike pictured (before refurbishing) as it appears that spot welds started after the D series?
Thanks
A side note regarding the “D” bikes is that while they no longer have dropouts with the integral drop stand tangs, the dropouts are attached with visible full surround welds similar to the construction methods used on the prewar bikes. Beginning with the “E” series bikes, the dropouts are attached with invisible spot welds and the end of the frame tubes have a clean end showing no weld bead.
Thanks
A side note regarding the “D” bikes is that while they no longer have dropouts with the integral drop stand tangs, the dropouts are attached with visible full surround welds similar to the construction methods used on the prewar bikes. Beginning with the “E” series bikes, the dropouts are attached with invisible spot welds and the end of the frame tubes have a clean end showing no weld bead.
