old hotrod
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Phil, I have the 37 Speed-badged bike noted elsewhere on these boards that you were so kind to give me info on. Do I still need to send you photos and info or can you get it off that post? Let me know...
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Cleveland Welding S/N Project...See Page 58 Post 576 for chart
- Thread starter AntonyR
- Start date
old hotrod
Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Probably can't get to it for a while but I will make a note of it...
Hiawatha
I have a Hiawatha (Cleveland welding) bike that is identical to the roadmaster frames and forks (springer) the serial numbers are followed with a gap and the "53". the drop outs have adjusters and it does not have a skip tooth. 2 speed bendix rear hub (aviator). I am not sure if these items are all original and I know that pics would help. Just thought the offset "53" may be a clue.
I have a Hiawatha (Cleveland welding) bike that is identical to the roadmaster frames and forks (springer) the serial numbers are followed with a gap and the "53". the drop outs have adjusters and it does not have a skip tooth. 2 speed bendix rear hub (aviator). I am not sure if these items are all original and I know that pics would help. Just thought the offset "53" may be a clue.
It?s great to see such a response for the call for serial numbers.
I'll add these to the growing list.
I believe both bikes posted above are postwar as per my reasons below.
I?m posting a couple of the pictures I have taken of my CWCs for the serial number project to see how they look. If these work I have a few more ready to upload and then it?s back to the garage for more photos. I also have about 40 prewar serial numbers charted but I am still formatting that information so it will post legibly.
I also took the picture of my one postwar frame and ghosted the front of a prewar 3-gill over the top. This shows the most obvious change, the curvature of the down-tube
Regarding pre and post war differences, I don?t have literature that definitively charts when changes were introduced. By the time CWC was producing Luxury Liners it appears that most of the postwar changes had been made. Whether or not the very first postwar bicycles incorporated any or all of these differences is one of the areas I hope will become clear as this serial number project develops.
Here are some notes and my opinions at this point on prewar vs. postwar.
Most of the prewar frame styles were not reintroduced when postwar bicycle production resumed.
The boy?s 3-Gill style frame and the standard girls frame both survived WWII but a number of changes were made. Again, I don?t know if all these changes were incorporated in the first postwar production or gradually phased in.
Antony has noted previously, and I agree, that the very first postwar 3-Gills may be the frames that appear to be identical to prewar models but do not have drop-out ears. Another distinguishing feature of bikes from this (1942?-1946?) period is the appearance of the forged fork with the pinch crown. (Looks sort of early Dayton crossed with Schwinn forged)
The following frame changes were all introduced after the war.
On the boy?s 3-Gill, the postwar model's down-tube curve is deeper and more pronounced (like a prewar girl?s frame.)
The seat clamp was redesigned and has an annular rib pressed into the surface.
The rear dropouts were changed, still rear facing they do not have drop stand ears and incorporate fender brace and chain guard mounting holes.
The rear fender bridges on the frame are open stampings rather than tubular, and contoured to fit the fender.
As for sheet metal changes, the flush side and comet impressed tanks were both available pre and post war. When equipped with horn buttons early tanks use the larger nickel size delta horn button mounted in a stepped depression on the left side of the tank. Later tanks use the small 1/4? button protruding through a hole on the right side of the tank.
I don?t know when Delta came out with the smaller button or when CWC incorporated it.
Any Delta experts have info on this?
The earlier chain-guards gave way to a revision of the 1941 guard with a new mount.
I believe the stamped steel CWC rack with the chevrons is postwar only although I have seen them mounted on prewar bikes. I assume added later, maybe I?m wrong?
More stuff for discussion.
Enjoy
Phil
Prewar 3-gill, serial number WF 14 K24110 58
Postwar 3-Gill, serial number B45580 ACW
Prewar 3-gill front end ghosted over postwar 3-Gill
I'll add these to the growing list.
I believe both bikes posted above are postwar as per my reasons below.
I?m posting a couple of the pictures I have taken of my CWCs for the serial number project to see how they look. If these work I have a few more ready to upload and then it?s back to the garage for more photos. I also have about 40 prewar serial numbers charted but I am still formatting that information so it will post legibly.
I also took the picture of my one postwar frame and ghosted the front of a prewar 3-gill over the top. This shows the most obvious change, the curvature of the down-tube
Regarding pre and post war differences, I don?t have literature that definitively charts when changes were introduced. By the time CWC was producing Luxury Liners it appears that most of the postwar changes had been made. Whether or not the very first postwar bicycles incorporated any or all of these differences is one of the areas I hope will become clear as this serial number project develops.
Here are some notes and my opinions at this point on prewar vs. postwar.
Most of the prewar frame styles were not reintroduced when postwar bicycle production resumed.
The boy?s 3-Gill style frame and the standard girls frame both survived WWII but a number of changes were made. Again, I don?t know if all these changes were incorporated in the first postwar production or gradually phased in.
Antony has noted previously, and I agree, that the very first postwar 3-Gills may be the frames that appear to be identical to prewar models but do not have drop-out ears. Another distinguishing feature of bikes from this (1942?-1946?) period is the appearance of the forged fork with the pinch crown. (Looks sort of early Dayton crossed with Schwinn forged)
The following frame changes were all introduced after the war.
On the boy?s 3-Gill, the postwar model's down-tube curve is deeper and more pronounced (like a prewar girl?s frame.)
The seat clamp was redesigned and has an annular rib pressed into the surface.
The rear dropouts were changed, still rear facing they do not have drop stand ears and incorporate fender brace and chain guard mounting holes.
The rear fender bridges on the frame are open stampings rather than tubular, and contoured to fit the fender.
As for sheet metal changes, the flush side and comet impressed tanks were both available pre and post war. When equipped with horn buttons early tanks use the larger nickel size delta horn button mounted in a stepped depression on the left side of the tank. Later tanks use the small 1/4? button protruding through a hole on the right side of the tank.
I don?t know when Delta came out with the smaller button or when CWC incorporated it.
Any Delta experts have info on this?
The earlier chain-guards gave way to a revision of the 1941 guard with a new mount.
I believe the stamped steel CWC rack with the chevrons is postwar only although I have seen them mounted on prewar bikes. I assume added later, maybe I?m wrong?
More stuff for discussion.
Enjoy
Phil
Prewar 3-gill, serial number WF 14 K24110 58
Postwar 3-Gill, serial number B45580 ACW
Prewar 3-gill front end ghosted over postwar 3-Gill
