Confusion/troubleshooting on lacing first rim...

[alecburns]

Hey everyone,

I took on the task of relacing the rear rim of my '39/'41 Elgin with new spokes and nipples. I got the exact length spokes as the originals, and followed a tutorial that was posted on here. "Without the BullShlt. How to lace a 36 Spoke Rim". I followed the tutorial and what I thought the original lacing was exactly. I learned later that the wheels weren't originally interlaced, but I did that because the rim was slightly bent and I wanted to make it as stiff as possible (I know, this is debated). I was able to tension the spokes tight and true the rim just enough where I feel safe.

The problem I am having is that the threading of the spokes is past the nipple, and they are protruding into the tire space. I have searched to find a reason why, and the only thing I found to be a possibility is that the orientation of the rows is inverted (if that makes sense) on mine. In common rims, the holes surrounding the valve stem hole reads: top row, valve hole, lower row and on mine it is lower row, valve hole, upper row. Should I have done the lacing backwards to have the nipples thread on the spokes differently? What are my options? Should I unlace the rim and and lace them up to correspond correctly with the valve hole orientation? Or is there any issue with just filing down the excess threading after the 'bottom' of the nipples?

 

[GTs58]

How about a straight on shot of the whole wheel for the experts to view. Looks like something went wrong judging from the over penetration if the spokes are the same length as the originals.

 

[alecburns]

Here it is! I followed the pattern of the original.

 

[TR6SC]

Here it is! I followed the pattern of the original.
View attachment 827068

Have you got them laced Crossed 3? We can't see the spokes well.

 

[bikemonkey]

From the spoke angle it sure looks like only a x2 wheel as laced...each spoke (beginning at the hub) should be crossed over three times (x3) by the spokes going in the opposite direction.

I would not interlace this wheel as that pattern is usually incorrect (and noticeable) on most vintage bikes.

Also, based on the distance between opposing spokes at the last crossing (which I have noticed on some vintage wheels), interlacing them could make the spokes too short when reusing the original ones.

Reversing the orientation of the spokes when relacing will not affect the original spoke length but it may make it difficult for you getting the spokes correct at valve stem hole.

If the rim is actually bent (warped as opposed to an impact dent) you do not have an enviable task ahead of you. If you can actually make it rideable again, the uneven spoke tension will make the newly built wheel want to "potato chip" under load - especially any side load.

If I had to use that rim again, I would unlace it and try and make it lie as flat as possible first. Do this by carefully levering against it with your hands placed on opposite sides of the rim - use a wide flat door frame to push against. Check it by laying it on a large plate glass window to see warping and if you have improved it.

 

[SKPC]

^^^^^^^ agreed...see last post..

 

[bairdco]

I can't tell if it's 2 or 3x from the pic with the hub in the way. If it's 2, you'll have to relace it.

If it is 3x, and the wheel is true, you can grind off the tips. That's common practice with any spoked wheel. I've built hundreds of wheels and almost always have to grind down a few spokes. The only time I've had to grind them all down was when I only had spokes that were a little too long.

Using a file will take you a week to grind them all down. Get a drill and a grinding bit. As long as there's enough threads to hold the nipple, it's fine.

As far as the wheel being previously bent, as long as it's not deformed from curb smashing, trueing it will take it out without having to go to the extremes in the previous reply. Yes, it's easier to start with a perfectly flat rim, but if you know what you're doing, you can overcome that by trueing it.

Also, if the spokes are only protruding on half the rim, you've got that half too tight, and it'll come out with a clown bike sizes hop.

 

[alecburns]

Sorry for the bad pics everyone, but I am honestly confused. I am fairly certain I did 3x unless I am missing something. Unless it's the interlacing of the 3rd spoke, or that the way I did it is inverse to the original, I don't understand how the same length spoke protrudes so much into the rim. About half of the threading. The protrusions are just about equal all of the way round.

Here's a better pic of the lacing.

Original spoke and new spoke side-by-side (Could there be an issue with the slightly angled elbow?)

Here's a video of how true it is right now. There is a slight bend in the rim I was not able to rectify entirely, but it is much better compared to yesterday. Its within 1/16" wobble to either side.

And here's a video of the profile of the rear wheel.

 

[redline1968]

If they stick out like that, you need one more cross. What your probably doing is seeing that the spokes are inserted into the hole when they should just be outside the hole a bit. You need to move one spoke to the right more time and one to the left one more time.. where it looks like it just barely touches the hole..naturally I’m right...lol

 

[alecburns]

Howdy everyone!

Upon inspecting the photos of the original wheel closer I just realized it is 4x, not 3x. Thank you all for your replies. I fee like a dufous