Difference Between An Original Bike And Original As Built Bike ?????

[mike1117]

I am still on the mend from my surgery. One of the cuts in my stomach from by belly button down to my private parts became infected and is taking so long to heal, and not being able to lift anything over 5 pounds per doctors orders. Hard to walk, have to pack wound twice a day myself. I guess we don't heal up like we did when we were younger. Anyway with all this downtime I started to wonder what people on here consider to be an original bike. I see ads that state all original except new paint, recovered, seat, new wheels and tires etc...I see a lot of ads that state bike is all original except a list of things that have been changed or even updated through the years. My thoughts on this are if someone wants to state a bike is all original except new paint, new seat new tires, new rims, etc.... It is kind of silly in a way especially when most of the bike is not original. However if a person wants to do this it is OK as they are giving a good description of the bike. In my mind this is better than the person who lists the bike and does not say anything about what they know is original and what is not. What I feel is tricky is when someone states a bike is all original, yet they know that some of the parts have been replaced with the correct original parts for the bike such as replacing on a nice original bike with the only flaw being the original seat with a tear on it, replacing it with an original nice seat they have found that would be the correct same seat as the one removed but in nice shape with no tear. When that is done is that bike still an original bike, do you think the owner has an obligation to disclose this when selling the bike? Besides just replacing a seat, how about a nice all original bike that besides the seat being replaced has had many other parts replaced with the correct original parts even with correct dating on dated parts to upgrade the original parts. What about if you have a beautiful frame set with great original paint, correct dated original forks, crank within a month, and then the bike is built up with all the correct nice original correct for that bike parts even dated correctly tires, is that an original bike even though it has been pieced together from a frame set. Maybe there should be 2 types of original bikes being original as was built, nothing changed, and all original, not as built, having some parts replaced with the original parts that were replaced on the bike. Be nice in that case to also have the original parts that were taken off and replaced on the bike. I always have a sly smile on my face when someone tells me a bike they are selling is 100% original, and they got it from the original owner that never replaced a thing. Unless you are the original owner, how do you know this is true. I have bought bikes from people in this situation such as a beautiful original 1968 Orange Krate from an original owner with everything correct except a RWL slik on the back. When asked bout the rear tire the owner stating they got the bike new and never replaced the tire, they swear the RWL tire was on the bike when he got the bike new from the dealer. I think in most cases they might have just forgot about a bad tire being replaced on the bike. I would never sell a bike as being all original with nothing being replaced unless I was the original owner and had control over the bike the whole time I owned it. When someone sells me a bike stating they are the original owner and it is all original, nothing replaced or changed, I would never tell a a prospective subsequent purchaser of the bike from me that I know for sure nothing on the bike has ever been changed. I do not care how good the provenance on the bike is with photos, letters, receipts. If I did not own the bike or had a close connection to the bike since it was new, I can not say this. I would say that I purchased it from the original owner and they told me that noting was changed, and that after I bought it I found all the parts to be correctly dated and that I found no evidence of anything being changed or repaired, but since I did not own the bike from new I can not say that anything might have been replaced with a correct part. I see bikes for sale that state that everything on the bike is all original, maybe going as far to say not a nut or screw has been turned on the bike, but unless you were the original owner how do you know for sure a tire may have been replaced with a used correct dated tire, used correct chainguard or seat being installed. I feel it is okay to give an opinion on what may or may not be the case, but to state it as a fact is tough to do unless you knew the bike since new. It always amuses me when I have a bike for sale that I said to the prospective buyer the forks or perhaps the gooseneck or some other item are dated up to 3 months difference from the frame date and the prospective buyer is telling me they can not be original to the bike then. I just smile and say they could be right about that. They end up buying the bike, yet when they go to sell it the next month or years after buying it they state the dates on all these items and how this shows the bike has to an all original bike, and a 3 month window on these parts is fine. I guess that window is different when you are buying a bike and trying to get a good price, then when you now own the bike and trying to sell the bike. Like when I sold a bike to someone who swore it had been repainted but still bought the bike, then a few months later I saw him selling it with a tag on the bike stating all original paint. Funny how ones opinions can change depending if you are the buyer or seller of the bike. Sorry got off track here with this last bit, but all this did keep me busy for almost an hour. Now this is just my opinion, but again should a bike be described as all original if a part has been replaced even with the correct part, bike would still be correct, but is it original if a part has been replaced. All of this is just my opinion and would like to hear what others think about this.

 

[byke!punk]

I don’t think I could state as fact that an entire bike is all original. If I believed it was I would state just that- I believe.

 

[Livmojoe]

Hey Mike, glad you’re on the mend and posting again even with a little set back. I don’t want to derail the “all original” discussion, but what I often find funny are custom bikes (low rider, Klunker, strandie, etc.) that are advertised as “1939” or “1964” “Schwinn (Excelsior, Sting Ray, Typhoon, Wasp, etc [fill in the blank])” and they’re so far stripped-down or customized from what the original Schwinn model was it’s hilarious.
I believe these kind of bike model names not to be true

 

[Archie Sturmer]

In the phrase, "all-original except..." the adjective, "all" is unnecessary and too-absolute.

The phrase, "original, except..." would be both shorter, and more correct (grammar-wise).

 

[SJ_BIKER]

Hey Mike's back.........
And he wrote a lot so I'm guessing he feels better????

 

[mike1117]

Hey Mike's back.........
And he wrote a lot so I'm guessing he feels better????

If I were feeling better I would have been out today doing something, the weather was so nice. Just trying to pass some time writing some dribble. I guess I have never sent a text in my life perhaps because I could not ever see writing these one or two word, or even sentence or two responses used in texts. I am a bit long winded and enjoy a good spirited lengthy conversation. Remember just talking on the phone for the longest time to friends, now it seems with texts it is a lot of yes and no, perhaps an emoji or two. I wonder decades from now if people will have a hard time communicating face to face with conversation instead of with text as it seems to be going.

 

[Motoman]

Reminds me of advertisers stating fully rebuilt or fully restored both of which are misleading rebuilt, restored, seldom say using nos or used worn parts? Or this one I see a lot on here and other sites "all original" that would mean that a 70+ year old bicycle has all the original factory bolts screws, hardware, spokes, chain etc. Another good one frequently seen is "Rare & Very Rare" collectible bicycles and pictured is a rusty crusty old bicycle Just because a bicycle is old doesn't make it "Collectible or Rare"

 

[Wolfmac]

There only original once right? I approach every purchase with the mind set that a sellers priority is to make or recover money on his investment. Regardless of the seller’s degree of integrity or knowledge, I’m going to do my homework and ask the questions I feel are pertinent. Some sellers may be experts on a particular model of bike but I think most are just describing their items with the knowledge they have. I don’t fault them for getting it wrong unless they clearly, intentionally, try and deceive. As for the claim of originality, as you stated, even when every piece is verified to be correct, there is no way to determine if a part was ever changed out. Some might take the position of “Prove that it is original” and I say I can’t but nor can you prove it is not. 2 cents.

 

[kreika]

All original equipment bike that barely if at all got used, and nothing was ever replaced. No nut was ever turned since leaving the factory. I guess that would be the pinnacle of original bike status. Everything after that would be original with slight modifications. Replaced a tire, tube, or grip. A bike that was created by pooling all original condition parts together is original isn’t it? It just was put together by the collector of the parts as opposed to someone in the era the bike came from. As bikes weren’t meant to be used. A bike that never got used is kinda a sad bike. It missed its calling in life. Rolling down the road with a happy rider aboard!

 

[AS-1]

When you drive a new 'Vette off the lot it is no long either new or original. It's a used car. If it's my 'Vette, I will always think of it as original, even if I change the tires. But if I'm buying it from the guy who drove it off the lot, it's just another used car. People throw the word "original" around in an effort to to add significance and importance to things that aren't really that significant or that important. It's human nature. It's called "puff". We all are old enough to know puff when we see it. I look for bikes that have clear provenance. The stories are better...most of the time, the original owner won't lie to me about his stuff. I have several bikes that came to me with their sales receipts, others with the word of honorable people. I like to be able to say, "That was Mr. Harmon's bike," not to impress anybody but because I really liked and respected Mr. Harmon. Maybe one of these days somebody will call me on the phone and say, "I found Dad's bike up in the attic at the farm. Do you want it?" I guess it would be OK to call that bike original once or twice, but it's still a used bike that used to belong to an old farmer down the county.