Elgin Cardinal Stem Removal - Help Please

[Kato]

I would but the dang front fender is flopping around because the hole that holds it up into the stem has gotten too big and the bolt head goes threw the fender. All I was planning on doing was remove the stem, put a new bolt with a washer bigger than the hole size up under the fender and that's it.
Unfortunately it hasn't gone as easily as I'd hoped. rest of the bike no problems.......No Jinx

 

[bricycle]

hmmm....

 

[RustySprockets]

Because the lock ring is missing, he really isn't in a position to "just leave it as is." That ring is necessary to hold the proper headset adjustment. As best I can figure, the bike has relied on the truss rods to perform that task...but that's no solution.

 

[bricycle]

Assuming you tried what Tech suggested in post 7, if it were my bike, I'd slide truss rod bracket up stem as far as possible and wire it in place so it would not fall back down. Then I would unscrew the top bearing race (above threads if possible) and secure that as well.
Then I would try heating the threaded portion of fork tube with a map gas torch(not long). assuming this tube can expand when heated, now is the time to juice area between fork tube and stem with penetrant. Be carefull, as it will smoke (and stink) but hopefully some of that penetrant will creep into the joint. with bars tightened in stem, and fork secured somehow try twisting the stem. hopefully it will break free. If it does NOT by now, retighten bearing race, lock nut, truss supports. Put a sacrificial crapola wheel on fork, insert a bolt with as huge a washer as feasible into stem bolt hole, and smack top of bolt very strongly with a hand sledge. Hopefully this will at least loosen stem inside fork tube. If not.... you may need to cut off top of stem, remove fork, cut a narrow groove in upper fork tube (fibre wheel)to release remainder of stem. If all else fails, cut of frozen section of fork tube and have a short section re-welded on to existing fork. You may not elect to do such, but probably would be the route I would take. ??? exercise caution and think thru what ever you may do. good luck.

 

[RustySprockets]

Kato, that bike is SO nice, I caution about letting frustration get the better of you. It sometimes causes us to pursue a rash course of action. Cutting = rash.

If it were any common bike, I'd say sure...cut it up, whack on it, burn it in gasoline. Who cares? Whatever gets the job done. BUT...take a breath here. You are the conservator of a museum piece--a genuine chunk of cycling history. Not everyone gets the chance to work on an Elgin Cardinal--you're a chosen one. Allow that knowledge to guide your approach and you won't go wrong.

I'm willing to help out how ever I can.

 

[morton]

Have you tried one of the products like Chill Zone or Loctite Freeze and Release? I think they also carry a penetrant that gets into the momentary gap created by the lower temp. I have had success with both though not in your specific situation. You may need to make numerous applications.

I would give the stem a long spray and immediately try to rotate it. NO! See below. Like I said, may take numerous tries.


UPDATE: here's a link to the product:
http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/specialty-products/chill-zone

I was incorrect about doing it right away. They recommend waiting a bit. See link for details.

 

[RustySprockets]

I never even heard of these products before, but I've seen the concept work successfully, on a sweet steel Miyata. It saved the bike.

A colleague heated the seized parts, much like Bricycle described above, then plunged the exposed section of stem into a shallow bucket of ice water. POP! Well...it wasn't exactly that easy, but with enough twisting, the pieces finally came apart.

 

[Iverider]

Just curious but do you know for a fact that you've budged the wedge from under the stem? If that's still in place, you'll never get the stem out. It needs to be free of the stem entirely. Other than that, I'd say keep soaking and put the bars back on so you can get some leverage.

 

[Cowboy in NC]

Hello Mr. Kato,
If you`ve not got the stem loose yet, humor me and read this when you have time.
In the past few months I`ve had a total of four of these stuck stems or seat posts. Gave up on the first one- sold the Prewar Cycletruck frame as-is, tried everything I knew, soaked it with PB, WD-40 and tried heat- nothing, Even cut the stem off, so I could remove the fork from the frame-to better work on it by putting it in a vice. Finally, gave up and Sold it... Ran across the same problem again,Prewar Dayton Frame - nice fork with stuck stem. It`s hard to say how I came up with this. Again, I soaked it for days with PB- nothing... Didn`t try heat on this one.
Let me back up just a little... I have a 1946 Columbia that I ride. A few months ago, I bought a set of Bare metal repro tanks, rack and chain guard off Ebay. I put them on the bike as-is and have never painted or even primed them. So, every once in a while I take WD and steel wool and quickly knock the rust off. Well, one day I was out of WD. So, I put some regular PINESOL, in a spray bottle and it worked as fast as the WD on removing the rust. So, I used it from then on.
Back to the Dayton Stem--- had soaked it for days... nothing! I had spent about a half hour that day trying to break it loose--wouldn`t budge. Something sparked in my head to try the Pinesol. I don`t know why. I sprayed the stem several times- waited about 15 minutes and "IT BROKE LOOSE !" I don`t know if it is a chemical reaction between the PB Blaster and the Pinesol, or if the Pinesol is simply washing out some of the rust material and dirt that was loosened by the Blaster -or what. But it worked. A few weeks later- a stuck Seat Post in a Schwinn Phantom---wouldn`t budge. Didn`t soak it for days this time- sprayed it with PB, still wouldn`t budge. Waited 15 minutes and sprayed it with Pinesol- had it out within 10 minutes. Might be a FLUKE... maybe, but another guy on the forum had a stuck seatpost in an Aluminum Silver King. I told him about it, but I don`t think he put much belief in it. But he said he tried it. He eventually got the post out- but said it was the combination of everything tried that did it. That is my POINT...
Okay, circumstantial evidence so far. This Week ; another stuck stem in a 1946 Schwinn Girls B6- broken stem bolt " This Junk is KIlling Me --nothing is easy!!!" Again, with the Blaster- sprayed it for a couple of days and let it soak. Wedge had fallen down, but stem wouldn`t budge. Finally had a little time to spend on it-- Tried it first to see if it would break loose--nothing ! Sprayed it with Pinesol, waited - and again had it out of the Bike in a few minutes...
My point is---after you`ve tried everything else, spend two dollars--Humor an Old Man, and let me know if it works... I am three for three, help me with my research...
I wish You Good Luck My Friend, -------God Bless,---Cowboy
I don`t know why it works- I`m not a chemist... And, Your Bike is AWESOME !!!

 

[Iverider]

I'll give just Pinesol a try on a stuck seatpost in a junk fuji frame I have. What could it hurt?