T
When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Elgin or Iver Johnson?
#eBayPartner Most Recent BUY IT NOW Items Listed on eBay
T
TheBicycleJungle
Guest
Thanks Gordon, anybody else can help us out? The previous owner said he believes that is an iver johnson. I'm not sure about that. Iver johnson tend to have curved frame in 1930's? the paintings are similar with Elgins but the sprocket that is different. ??
P
phenolic
Guest
if the paint is original it looks like an Iver...
pnfkwfl
Finally riding a big boys bike
Hi All,
I am going to stick my neck out here and ask if anyone else has noticed the chain ring? Considering that AND the paint I think she is a Pierce. I am by no stretch of the imagination a bicycle god - BUT in the past I had a Pierce (others call them Pierce Arrows). This set up with the aluminum fenders, chain ring, paint and truss rod support brackets all lead me to speculate… she is a Pierce.
It would appear the only pictures I have of my Pierce are on a backup drive buried someplace in the data. This quest is not adequate to motivate enough to dig through it all and find them.
Maybe another reader will have some pictures of a Pierce ballooner with this paint layout. The web is filled with 28 inch pierce pictures but I found none from the later Baloon period. That should be enough to motivate some kid to finds us some pictures.
Tell me are there any remnants of gold tone decals on the top or bottom tube?
Who made the hubs and are they script?
A quick measurement of the holes from the former badge on the head tube would help. Then we can find the measurements of the original badge.
Later,
KW Scott
I am going to stick my neck out here and ask if anyone else has noticed the chain ring? Considering that AND the paint I think she is a Pierce. I am by no stretch of the imagination a bicycle god - BUT in the past I had a Pierce (others call them Pierce Arrows). This set up with the aluminum fenders, chain ring, paint and truss rod support brackets all lead me to speculate… she is a Pierce.
It would appear the only pictures I have of my Pierce are on a backup drive buried someplace in the data. This quest is not adequate to motivate enough to dig through it all and find them.
Maybe another reader will have some pictures of a Pierce ballooner with this paint layout. The web is filled with 28 inch pierce pictures but I found none from the later Baloon period. That should be enough to motivate some kid to finds us some pictures.
Tell me are there any remnants of gold tone decals on the top or bottom tube?
Who made the hubs and are they script?
A quick measurement of the holes from the former badge on the head tube would help. Then we can find the measurements of the original badge.
Later,
KW Scott
Last edited:
Classicriders
I live for the CABE
I am almost positive that it's a Hawthorne Super Flyer. This is the H.P. Snyder built version versus the Cleveland Welding built one. The triple plate top of the fork is the primary give away as to the manufacturer.
SB
SB
catfish
Riding an Alexander Rocket Bike
I have to agree with SB. Snyder built bike.
37fleetwood
Riding a '37 Fleetwood
I had a 26" Hawthorne that looked exactly like this. I ended up trading it off for a 1976 Datsun 280Z which I still have.
the Hawthorne I had had metal clad wooden clincher rims in 26". very cool.
Scott
the Hawthorne I had had metal clad wooden clincher rims in 26". very cool.
Scott
I concur with the Hawthorne by H.P. Snyder assessment.
I?ll elaborate as some of this following information may be useful.
In answering the question ?who made this bike?? I try first try to determine which of the bicycle companies actually produced the frame (the heart and soul of the machine). This is because virtually all bicycles were an assembly of parts from several companies, suppliers and distributors. In some cases even the forks were produced by an outside supplier.
The bicycle in the photo has a Moto-Bike style frame which became popular in the early teens and became the dominant standardized design by the 1920?s. As this bike is built around 26? balloon wheels (I generalize these bikes as Moto-Balloons) it can be more closely dated as no earlier than 1933 and not reasonably later than 1937.
Moto-Balloon frames have the fewest styling deviations of any Pre-War balloon class.
Back to our Photograph, the details important to answering the question are the specific details of the frame?s construction, the joints, the tube shapes, the exact shape of the rear drops, the seat binder, the location and style of the serial number, on and on, etc.
Unless the paint and the badge and the components are unquestionably original to the bicycle, they can lead you in false directions.
Many of the above points are hard to determine from the photo, but the salient points I see are first, the general geometry of the frame, and second, the seat binder pinch bolt through the seat stays. In addition the chainring, fork crown, truss-rods, lower truss-rod plate, the fender stay-drop stand bracket combo and the paint pattern taken together all say Hawthorne by Snyder.
In addition, I would expect that the upper fender bridge is curved rather than straight and that the crank hanger has small lugs reinforcing the junctures with the seat and down tubes.
Snyder may have produced more Moto-Balloons than any other manufacturer as they seem to be more common today than any of the other leading maker?s similar models.
Hawthorne was probably the largest single outlet for Snyder production and I believe that all steel Moto-Balloons sold by MW were Snyder built. (Early aluminum Monarks are essentially Moto-Balloons and Cleveland welding entered the picture later and never produced a true Moto-Balloon frame).
Both Iver Johnson and Emblem (Pierce) produced Moto-Balloons but in much smaller numbers.
Iver Johnson perhaps came closer than any other manufacturer to full in-house production and their bikes abound in unique features, most notably their two piece crank and a Packard radiator shaped fork crown.
Emblem Moto-Balloon frames (often? always?) have a fish mouth joint at the ends of the lower top tube and the one I have has chrome plated steel as opposed to stainless steel rain gutter fenders. In addition the fork crown is a two plate affair with built in truss rod supports and the rods form a drooping bow above the supports. Great pictures of an Emblem Piece can be found on Dave Stromberger?s site.
One final semi-related point. Pre-War Cleveland Welding produced Hawthorns also generally use a triple plate crown fork. The CWC Shock master fork was used on both Snyder and CWC frames and I believe, later (still pre-war), the plunger style (Snyder) fork replaced it on all sprung Hawthornes regardless of the frame source.
Lotta text...
Moto-Balloons are an interesting class. If anyone would like to discuss any of these tangents further we could start a fresh thread or two.
Phil
I?ll elaborate as some of this following information may be useful.
In answering the question ?who made this bike?? I try first try to determine which of the bicycle companies actually produced the frame (the heart and soul of the machine). This is because virtually all bicycles were an assembly of parts from several companies, suppliers and distributors. In some cases even the forks were produced by an outside supplier.
The bicycle in the photo has a Moto-Bike style frame which became popular in the early teens and became the dominant standardized design by the 1920?s. As this bike is built around 26? balloon wheels (I generalize these bikes as Moto-Balloons) it can be more closely dated as no earlier than 1933 and not reasonably later than 1937.
Moto-Balloon frames have the fewest styling deviations of any Pre-War balloon class.
Back to our Photograph, the details important to answering the question are the specific details of the frame?s construction, the joints, the tube shapes, the exact shape of the rear drops, the seat binder, the location and style of the serial number, on and on, etc.
Unless the paint and the badge and the components are unquestionably original to the bicycle, they can lead you in false directions.
Many of the above points are hard to determine from the photo, but the salient points I see are first, the general geometry of the frame, and second, the seat binder pinch bolt through the seat stays. In addition the chainring, fork crown, truss-rods, lower truss-rod plate, the fender stay-drop stand bracket combo and the paint pattern taken together all say Hawthorne by Snyder.
In addition, I would expect that the upper fender bridge is curved rather than straight and that the crank hanger has small lugs reinforcing the junctures with the seat and down tubes.
Snyder may have produced more Moto-Balloons than any other manufacturer as they seem to be more common today than any of the other leading maker?s similar models.
Hawthorne was probably the largest single outlet for Snyder production and I believe that all steel Moto-Balloons sold by MW were Snyder built. (Early aluminum Monarks are essentially Moto-Balloons and Cleveland welding entered the picture later and never produced a true Moto-Balloon frame).
Both Iver Johnson and Emblem (Pierce) produced Moto-Balloons but in much smaller numbers.
Iver Johnson perhaps came closer than any other manufacturer to full in-house production and their bikes abound in unique features, most notably their two piece crank and a Packard radiator shaped fork crown.
Emblem Moto-Balloon frames (often? always?) have a fish mouth joint at the ends of the lower top tube and the one I have has chrome plated steel as opposed to stainless steel rain gutter fenders. In addition the fork crown is a two plate affair with built in truss rod supports and the rods form a drooping bow above the supports. Great pictures of an Emblem Piece can be found on Dave Stromberger?s site.
One final semi-related point. Pre-War Cleveland Welding produced Hawthorns also generally use a triple plate crown fork. The CWC Shock master fork was used on both Snyder and CWC frames and I believe, later (still pre-war), the plunger style (Snyder) fork replaced it on all sprung Hawthornes regardless of the frame source.
Lotta text...
Moto-Balloons are an interesting class. If anyone would like to discuss any of these tangents further we could start a fresh thread or two.
Phil
Similar threads
-
- Locked
