Tall
Look Ma, No Hands!
I think the lower bars were considered the racing bikes
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European Bike
- Thread starter Tall
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dnc1
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
The example in the original post looks to be a singlespeed example.
The Pedersen 3-speed hub is quite a distinctive beast and requires considerable wheel-lacing skills.....
...it's a layshaft type gearbox, not planetary gears as in a Sturmey Archer hub.
The bar positions actually vary quite considerably over the years they were in production.
Fun bikes to ride, but if you are a slightly heavier than normal rider the frames can flex a little bit when pushing hard uphill.
The saddle is very comfortable in use.
Here is my friend Bob's 1910 example that he was out riding with us just before Christmas.....
...you'll see that the bars are low-mounted, but more like mini 'apehangers' compared to some.
The Pedersen 3-speed hub is quite a distinctive beast and requires considerable wheel-lacing skills.....
...it's a layshaft type gearbox, not planetary gears as in a Sturmey Archer hub.
The bar positions actually vary quite considerably over the years they were in production.
Fun bikes to ride, but if you are a slightly heavier than normal rider the frames can flex a little bit when pushing hard uphill.
The saddle is very comfortable in use.
Here is my friend Bob's 1910 example that he was out riding with us just before Christmas.....
...you'll see that the bars are low-mounted, but more like mini 'apehangers' compared to some.
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New Mexico Brant
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Here is the three speed version I own, it is a 1909 or 1910.
Here are the two I have built from scratch, because they look cool and originals are hard to find. Both were built from pics I found on the web and scaled up. Tons of work, no existing fixture (or even work stand, for that matter) is adequate. While quite odd looking they are surprisingly comfortable to ride and mine actually gets used more than other bikes I own.
There was a 3 speed Pedersen hub sold on fleabay about 6 months back for $500 as a buy-it-now. Building a wheel will be challenging as there are a large number of different spoke lengths due to the oval-ish flanges.
Finding an original to ride will be difficult as there were at least 6 different frame sizes. Mine have about 3' of seat height adjustment but eventually the angle of the seat support strap becomes an issue. Someone above mentioned flex, something I have not noticed, in fact if anything these seem extra rigid to me.
The "patina" one is made from 5/8 (16mm) cromoly and the orange one from 1/2" (12mm).
There was a 3 speed Pedersen hub sold on fleabay about 6 months back for $500 as a buy-it-now. Building a wheel will be challenging as there are a large number of different spoke lengths due to the oval-ish flanges.
Finding an original to ride will be difficult as there were at least 6 different frame sizes. Mine have about 3' of seat height adjustment but eventually the angle of the seat support strap becomes an issue. Someone above mentioned flex, something I have not noticed, in fact if anything these seem extra rigid to me.
The "patina" one is made from 5/8 (16mm) cromoly and the orange one from 1/2" (12mm).
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dnc1
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
The construction of yours is slightly different to the originals which probably accounts for the lack of flexing, particularly around the top of the 'headstock' area; you can see this most clearly in Brant's final photo above. Your example has a more conventional headtube style.
Your brazing skills look pretty fantastic by the way.
The originals were built using a type of silver solder that melts at a relatively low temperature.
I have heard tales of these original frames falling apart when being put in a paint oven!
Much to an acquaintances annoyance.
Your brazing skills look pretty fantastic by the way.
The originals were built using a type of silver solder that melts at a relatively low temperature.
I have heard tales of these original frames falling apart when being put in a paint oven!
Much to an acquaintances annoyance.
These were built from photos of the Copenhagen/Solling built bikes currently coming out of Denmark. Those frames use a unique design where the head tube has a flange welded along it's length and the down and mixtie tubes are flattened at their upper ends. All are then joined with a single bolt, which also supports the seat strap shackle. Clever, but in my view, ugly, and clear pics of originals that include these details are scarce.
A question for those of you familiar with originals regarding the junction of the seat stays and "brake bridge"junction. I have seen references that indicate this area is -not- brazed where they cross. In fact I was recently provided with a bootleg drawing of the Cech(?) manufactured version that includes a printed note that this is not to be connected. Can anyone confirm how this was done on an original frame? Seems that would have a direct bearing on stiffness as well. Mine are brazed here, it just seemed to make sense to do so.
Here is a pic of that head joint before brazing, the cross tube is for the strap attachment. It was a challenge to miter and the second frame just got a couple of ears brazed on in this location.
Thank you also for the kind words about brazing, btw.
A question for those of you familiar with originals regarding the junction of the seat stays and "brake bridge"junction. I have seen references that indicate this area is -not- brazed where they cross. In fact I was recently provided with a bootleg drawing of the Cech(?) manufactured version that includes a printed note that this is not to be connected. Can anyone confirm how this was done on an original frame? Seems that would have a direct bearing on stiffness as well. Mine are brazed here, it just seemed to make sense to do so.
Here is a pic of that head joint before brazing, the cross tube is for the strap attachment. It was a challenge to miter and the second frame just got a couple of ears brazed on in this location.
Thank you also for the kind words about brazing, btw.
dnc1
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
There is an article in 'Cycling' magazine of 1956 written by a member of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers that is a very technical study of all of the stresses imposed on all.parts of the frame under different riding conditions/situations.
It does mention the importance of the rear 'wires' (that run down from the seat to the rear hub axle) in resisting flexing/bending of the seat tubes.
Some of you may be aware of the famous image of Mr. and Mrs. Pedersen astride the tandem version of one of these machines, but I wonder how many have seen the 'Quadruplet' track pacing version.
You can find an image of it by following the excellent link by @Blue Streak on the previous page of this thread to the "Dursley Pedersen Bicycle Homepage".
What a beast!
It does mention the importance of the rear 'wires' (that run down from the seat to the rear hub axle) in resisting flexing/bending of the seat tubes.
Some of you may be aware of the famous image of Mr. and Mrs. Pedersen astride the tandem version of one of these machines, but I wonder how many have seen the 'Quadruplet' track pacing version.
You can find an image of it by following the excellent link by @Blue Streak on the previous page of this thread to the "Dursley Pedersen Bicycle Homepage".
What a beast!
The goal of the design seems to be that all loads are "straight-line", meaning all are either tension or compression with no bending moment. Rather elegant, but a real chore to produce in quantity and it was soon eclipsed by the diamond frame.
The cables are one of the tension elements and look (again, I have only a few pics for reference) to have originally been very long spokes that engage in notches at the bottom bracket. A bit crude for my taste so I used aircraft cable and a turnbuckle-type of construction for size adjustment.
Looking forward to some input from those lucky enough to own an original one.
Also, I realize that vintage European bikes are a bit of an orphan here on the Cabe, but there are very few sites on the web that do discuss them which is why I am here. That home page referenced above has had several admins but zero updating in about 10 years.
At some point I hope to build a similar frame from wood, just for grins.
Meanwhile, triangles galore...
dnc1
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
I would recommend that you join the V-CC here in the UK.
The Pedersen reference material alone would make it worth your while.
Here's a link:
v-cc.org.uk
The study guide with the article I mentioned above does mention that all of the tubes are in compression.
The Pedersen reference material alone would make it worth your while.
Here's a link:
Join
Membership of the Club is open to anyone with an interest in cycle history. Although there is no obligation to take part in club events, or even to own a cycle, there are many advantages to be gain…
v-cc.org.uk
The study guide with the article I mentioned above does mention that all of the tubes are in compression.
