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Factory black Stingray ?

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People can stomp their feet and fold your arms and demand documentation, because you know it probably does not exist. And declare yourself right and everyone else wrong. That cool. But……..
Let’s say Schwinn produced every color we know every year. Take the BigFoot factor out of the equation. Look at that bike currently on eBay from Wisconsin.
and tell me that is not a Original painted bike? So maybe it was a different model. Typhoon or something similar Schwinn produced in 65 dressed up with stingray parts. The chain Guard is the wild factor. And if someone took a 65 20” bike in Original black paint and made the chain guard match that closely. Great job!
my experience with Schwinn colors is most age and show patina the same. What I mean is.
Coppertones and Limes look great with heavy patina.
Yellow and White look like Garbage with heavy Patina.
Red and Blue bikes are somewhere between.
this black bike on EBay. Plus the bike I had the privilege of looking over very much match the condition of other black bikes I have restored from the 60s.
go back and look at the bike on EBay. Give me your documentation facts that say this bike is not Original paint. I like a bullet style format on outlines.
those of you are so passionate about your post with all your !!!!!!!!!
Let’s see a few before and after pics of all the bikes you have built.
Van Bushnell
2814706911
N Kildare Cycle Shop 1718


 
OK, I am going to address a few things in your rambling post separately since I feel they are directed at me personally:

People can stomp their feet and fold your arms and demand documentation, because you know it probably does not exist. And declare yourself right and everyone else wrong.

First of all, I haven't demanded anything. I just voiced a statement that I am not going to believe the Black 65 Stingrays were built at the Chicago Factory without seeing any documentation from Schwinn clearly stating they were!

Secondly, I never declared myself right, or that anyone else's opinion was wrong. But that being said, I will say that just because you can't find any documentation from Schwinn on certain bikes doesn't mean it doesn't exist!

Let me give you a perfect example: Here is a screen shot from your FB page stating that the Schwinn Sneaker Bike didn't exist in the Schwinn catalog. And here it is clearly listed in this copy of a page out of the 78 dealer catalog!

sneakerbike.jpg


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That cool. But……..
Let’s say Schwinn produced every color we know every year. Take the BigFoot factor out of the equation. Look at that bike currently on eBay from Wisconsin.
and tell me that is not a Original painted bike? So maybe it was a different model. Typhoon or something similar Schwinn produced in 65 dressed up with stingray parts. The chain Guard is the wild factor. And if someone took a 65 20” bike in Original black paint and made the chain guard match that closely. Great job!
my experience with Schwinn colors is most age and show patina the same. What I mean is.
Coppertones and Limes look great with heavy patina.
Yellow and White look like Garbage with heavy Patina.
Red and Blue bikes are somewhere between.
this black bike on EBay. Plus the bike I had the privilege of looking over very much match the condition of other black bikes I have restored from the 60s.
go back and look at the bike on EBay. Give me your documentation facts that say this bike is not Original paint. I like a bullet style format on outlines.
those of you are so passionate about your post with all your !!!!!!!!!

I never stated that the bike on Ebay wasn't original paint. What I have stated is that for me to believe that any 65 Black Sting-Ray was built on the assembly line at the Schwinn factory, I would have so see actual documentation from Schwinn stating it was. I also clearly stated that anyone here was free to believe what they want about the authenticity of these black Sting-Rays!!!!!!

Let’s see a few before and after pics of all the bikes you have built.

I wish I had taken pics of all the custom bikes I built in my years working at the Schwinn dealer back in the day, but I do not have any. I didn't have any type of social media back in the 70's & 80's so I didn't have the need for taking pictures to post showing off those bikes I built. In hindsight I now wish I would have taken pics of them, as it would be cool to see them all again! The only before and after pics I have is of this Schwinn KLUNKER 5 that came from my shop back in 78. I found this bike on Ebay a couple of years ago, and it was thrashed. I did a full teardown, and rebuild. Here is the before, and after shots of that bike.

K5.jpg


IMG_1153.JPG


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Van Bushnell
2814706911
N Kildare Cycle Shop 1718



I don't have any Youtube videos, or an active FB page set-up to promote myself such as you do! All I have is my certificate from the Schwinn Service School that I attended back in 1980 while actually working for a Schwinn dealer. I am just an average guy who likes to collect/restore Schwinn Cruisers. Like me or not, that's who I am...........

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I would've replied sooner but I had to read the whole thread twice to make sure my point was not already covered.
Black Stingray or no Black Stingray? That is the question. I read all the expert opinions and bits of proof (for and against) and I have a definite answer.
Not one person here knows for sure! That includes myself!
That being said, I offer some points previously mentioned, but not discussed together in one post, plus a couple points of my own research.
Schwinn made all manner of bikes they never made. Test bikes, one off bikes for special customers like the first Schwin Twinn tandem for a lady whose husband was a blind veteran and she needed to ride up front.
Al Fritz had numerous special Stingrays made for his son, who gave them to friends when he got the next one.
Does anyone here deny that of the Phantom bikes, The Black Phantom was the most popular? Apparently there WERE Goth kids even in the 1950s. Black bicycles have been around since the earliest bicycles.
Not everything in the catalogs were made, and not everything made was in a catalog.
My point? An earlier post shows a Schwinn Reporter page from May 1965. It shows one of the Schwinn Stingray available colors as Charcoal. While Charcoal was mentioned in some Schwinn catalogs, it does not show in the 1965 catalog for any bike. Was Charcoal Black? If so Schwinn says it WAS available but it was not in the catalogs. Maybe some dealers or customers requested the color since they offered it in the Schwinn Reporter and Schwinn produced them.
Just like every collectible in existence, some buttnugget will produce fake bikes to make money off unsuspecting or uninformed buyers. How many of the Flamboyant Red, Kool Yellow and Campus Green Krate series bikes were really sold as 5 Speed StingRays? It gets worse in 1970-1972 when you could buy Coaster Krates. Only the Orange Krate was spared since ithe catalog doesn't show any Stingrays in Kool Orange except the Orange Krate.
It is very difficult to weather paint to get a 50+ year old bike to look right with new paint. I have viewed a couple chainguards that appear to have the correct patina, wear and screening that were both black and said Stingray. Were they legit? Probably, unless one of the experts here can show everyone how to weather black paint to a 50+ year old patina and wear.
That is why most fake bikes look like new, because new paint and worn parts wouldn't fool a blind man. That is also why I refuse to purchase any more overpriced Stingray bikes. If I have the matching patina frame and chainguard I will build the bike myself using correct dated parts and I do not sell them. If I make a "Tribute" bike, it is also for my own personal collection and I will be honest about it being built from parts it normally would not have came with, like my December 1968 Pea Picker with an accessory Silver glow seat with the Campus Green stripe, a front fender and the same shifter as the 1,000,000th Schwinn, which coincidentally was an Orange Krate. With it I posed the scenario "What if Schwinn would've chosen a Pea Picker for the 1,000,000th bike? It may have been a better advertising move since the Pea Picker was new for 1969, and the 1968 run should've ended and the 1969 run began in September of 1968. It was still built in 1968 so the ad was truthful, but it was built for the 1969 model year and fitted with a 1968 style accessory seat.
I have been building and riding these bikes since high school in 1974, and I am still not claiming to be one of the "experts". Not one person on any forum can prove whether Schwinn built any black Stingrays unless they produce photos from the 1960s, verifiable as genuine of a black Stingray.
By the same token, nobody on any forum can prove they didn't without a letter from a high company official in the 1960s, verifiable as genuine that Schwinn did not build one black Stingray in the 1960s. They will also have to explain the Schwinn Reporter May 1965 showing Charcoal, which I would call black as an available color on the StingRays.
Trend this post, I will state with absolute 100% certainty that I BELIEVE Schwinn made a few black Stingrays, but if my belief was cash you would still need a quarter to buy a gumball in today's economy.
You can believe either way. Just do not trample my right and the rights of others to believe the opposite answer(s).
Thanks for approving my membership, I hope this post does not end it on the same day.
Thanks, Rob

Screenshot_20211206-063955_DuckDuckGo.jpg


Screenshot_20211206-064044_DuckDuckGo.jpg
 
An earlier post shows a Schwinn Reporter page from May 1965. It shows one of the Schwinn Stingray available colors as Charcoal.

The article referenced says that Stingray "Silver-Glow seats" will be available in Charcoal.
I don't have any skin in the game, but I'd have to see some documentation (vintage photo/invoices) before I believe the bikes existed.
 
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I saw a Person's made seat with a Stingray tag that was a black/charcoal color with the glitter look in it. Was a little worn, the vinyl looked old enough to be original. I wonder if that was what they referenced.
 
Just for fun, I'll toss in a picture of my original paint/screen/decals 1966 Violet Typhoon. It has the remains of a dealer sticker on it but it's no longer readable. I bought it off an older gentleman at the Hershey car show many years ago. It was in pretty bad shape and his price was pretty high - but I recalled a discussion on the old Schwinn forums about the questionable existence of violet mens' middleweights so I bought it.
I've been told by old timers over the years that Schwinn would paint a non standard color for a dealer if it was requested. No idea how the process went to order one. Did you have to be a high volume dealer? Know the right guy? Have a good rep? Would they do it for any shop? Who knows... But anyway here is a pedestrian middleweight that somebody wanted in purple. Too bad it wasn't a Panther or Jaguar!

violettyphoon.jpg
 
The Violet Typhoon gave me a chuckle. Years ago I drove 5 hours round trip to buy one. I was worried that it was not purple but was afraid to ask too many questions. I believe this was pre digital camera's so not a simple send more pics. Got there and of course it was red and he had a crappy camera! . I think it has been posted that dealers could not get custom colors but regional might have been able to. As said could have been as always with everything who you knew.
 
Plenty of the Schwinn dealer sales logs out there, "might" be some evidence in one of those? I have a few, I will look them over.
 
Plenty of the Schwinn dealer sales logs out there, "might" be some evidence in one of those? I have a few, I will look them over.

I have one also. New old stock, never written in. This one would be great for falsifying documentation to go with the fake Black Sting-Ray's out there...........LOL

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I am sure you are right although it would be a waste of a cool old piece of Schwinn history.
Nothing anyone can say or do short of Frank V Schwinn, Frank W or AL Fritz coming back from the dead and signing a notarized deposition verifying these bikes were made to give them validity. Maybe that wouldn't even be good enough, after all Al fritz was interviewed about the colored line front tires and said he could not recall Schwinn ever having color line tires for the Krates. He was most likely the guy who would've approved them. We can all agree that they exist I believe.
Like an earlier post mentioned, the Grape Krate existed, at least in one example and the documentation does not mention those being available. That would've been a much bigger deal for Schwinn than painting a few, or few hundred Stingrays black.
I have heard several negative opinions on the existence of 1971 disc brake bikes. Since I owned one in high school and have had at least one 6-71 dated hub since then I would stand on their existence. Even if they were produced for the 1972 model year they would be stamped somewhere between September and December 1971 to get them in homes by Christmas, the biggest season of the year for youth bike sales.
Maybe regional did order black Stingrays. Maybe dealers took orders or requested a group of Black Stingrays to sell. It happened in California for the original Stingrays after the test market absorbed the bikes like a paper towel dropped on water.
There are plenty of verifiable examples of Schwinn building bikes that never showed up in any catalogs or literature but it seems as if the black StingRay is the red headed stepchild of the family. It is easier to get a group of people to agree to the existence of Bigfoot, the Lockh Ness Monster or Annunaki from Nibiru than to believe that Schwinn would've ran Stingray frames down the black paint line and sold them without printing a special catalog or making a big fuss over doing it. They were in business to sell bikes, not print memos. If Black Stingrays would sell then I believe they would sell them.
I have seen for sale a few 1968 Fastbacks in Violet, even Rams Horn versions. Some showed enough scars and patina to be believable and still their existence is questioned. They were not in any sales catalogs, the sellers were not making a fuss over how rare they are, but they are out there.
 
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