G519 Ser # 51874

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Fred Green

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jan 7, 2019
82
60
Sparta, Wi
Hello All,

In a couple of weeks I will be picking up a Huffman G519 Serial Number 51874. I plan on restoring it or at least stabilizing it.

I have read all of the threads in the military section and am amazed at the depth of knowledge here. I am wondering about the configuration that it should be in when I am finished. I have read about pedal changes, seat changes, grip changes and a multitude of other things about this style of bike changing during production during the war. With all of this knowledge I was wondering how my bike would have looked coming out of the factory in 1942.

Here are some of the questions that I have:

1. PEDALS- What style of pedals would have been on it? Rubber/Wood?

2. BELL- Did it come with an issue bell? Who manufactured these?

3. LIGHT- From what I see , it came with a flat top non-embossed 'Delta Winner' front light, Is there a comparable civilian model I could use if I can't find an original?

4.GRIPS- I have read that the first issue bikes came with black rubber grips and then they changed to Green plastic. Which style would be probable for this serial number

5.TOOL BAGS- The million dollar question, I see that this is probably the hardest item to find. Are there any reproductions being made?? What is the going price for an original?

6. HUB MARKINGS- I have seen in the threads that the hubs are marked in a specific way. Is there a chart or listing for the entire war?

Thanks for looking at this thread. This will probably be quite rebuild for me and I prefer to get it right the first time. I am sure that it will be quite some time before I get a lot of the accessories and understand that. I have visited the Repro pages that other have posted and have a manual coming . I see that http://www.bergerwerke.com/ is right in my backyard. and am looking to establish some contact with these guys in the near future. Any and all help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

Fred
Sparta
 

Mercian

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jul 1, 2016
516
52
France
Hi Fred,

Well, you're going about this the right way, asking qestions before starting work. There is the slight problem that the answers to some of your questions are not currently known, or, at the least, are debatable.

These are my thoughts, others may know better than me, and I'll be happy to learn too. @Bozman may be the best t answer, since he has owned the very original D51646 which is the closest survivor to yours. See the post halfway down this page : https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=153923&start=15

You may also have already seen these sites to help you:




Here are some of the questions that I have:

1. PEDALS- What style of pedals would have been on it? Rubber/Wood?

Because it's still early war, I think rubber.

2. BELL- Did it come with an issue bell? Who manufactured these?

The bell was produced by Bevin. There are civilian ones that can be obtained and painted.

there is an example here: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/wwii-army-519-od-bevin-bell-vintage-471905970

3. LIGHT- From what I see , it came with a flat top non-embossed 'Delta Winner' front light, Is there a comparable civilian model I could use if I can't find an original?

Yes, it is not specifically a miltary light. Issue ones are in olive drab paint from the packaging, and civilian ones are white, blue and maybe other colours.
See post 13 here https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/sundays-show-and-tell-1-26-20.165161/#post-1116651
And post 36 here https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/my-collection-ww2-g519-military-bikes.128550/page-2#post-1116661

4.GRIPS- I have read that the first issue bikes came with black rubber grips and then they changed to Green plastic. Which style would be probable for this serial number

The black grips.

5.TOOL BAGS- The million dollar question, I see that this is probably the hardest item to find. Are there any reproductions being made?? What is the going price for an original?

There are currently no reproductions.I have bought three originals in the last three years, prices ranged from $50 for the nicest, to $300. It's a question of luck, and how long you want to wait.

6. HUB MARKINGS- I have seen in the threads that the hubs are marked in a specific way. Is there a chart or listing for the entire war?

The front hubs are all marked the same, Eclipse 36-10. The rear hubs are Morrow and dated.

See post 13 for an example of a dated Morrow hub.


The hub is M1, which is M = 1943, 1 = 1st Quarter (ie, Jan - March).

If your hub is original to the bike it is probably L1. Please let us know.

The only list of these numbers for Huffmans is the list I've compiled at post 14 on the same link as above.

I hope this heps.

Best Regards,

Adrian
 

Fred Green

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jan 7, 2019
82
60
Sparta, Wi
Hello Adrian,

Thank you very much. This is the type of information and the direction that I need to go. This will be an interesting process! Thanks again.

Fred
Sparta
 

blackcat

Finally riding a big boys bike
Apr 4, 2017
188
54
Le Raincy, France
Hello;
Just like Adrian, i'm very happy for your future conpanion G519 HUFFMAN.
Alrouthgh i have not yet found a HUFFMAN in my home (let alone that of my brother), here is what i thanks.
For the pedals, they have the Roman style rear landing (is this the original one...), your chocks must be made of wood, that of www.bergerwerk.com is fine.
On the other hand, you have a dogleg crank from COLUMBIA

1135660

1135661


Here are Gothics for exemple
1135668


For the grips, these are rubber bottles coke, you can find them at DENNIS CARPENTER CUSHMAN.
1135662


For the light, i join Adrian, it is a DELTA WINNER civilian in white color most often wich passed in OD for the army.
1135663

1135664


1135665

Toolbag...

Regards;
Serge
 

Fred Green

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jan 7, 2019
82
60
Sparta, Wi
Hello Serge,

Thank you for your information. I didn't know that the Huffman had a straight arm crank. This is interesting. It appears to have been there for a long time. Do we know exactly when the pedals were changed from rubber to wood. I had seen Bill's (HUFFMANBILL) thread on pedals and that was an interesting read. I also saw that you had a pair of pedals that did not conform to this idea. Trying to find out as much information as possible. Thank you again for your input. I found a pair of hard plastic black grips and a nice set of pedals in a box in the basement. I will post pictures soon.

Fred
Sparta
 
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Fred Green

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jan 7, 2019
82
60
Sparta, Wi
Hello,

Here are some civilian Torrington pedals, extra rubber parts, and grips that I have. I also have the civilian model "Winner" front light but with the embossing on the top and missing the knurled knob on the back end.


Fred
Sparta

IMG_9832.JPG


IMG_9833.JPG


IMG_9834.JPG


IMG_9835.JPG


IMG_9836.JPG


IMG_9837.JPG
 
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blackcat

Finally riding a big boys bike
Apr 4, 2017
188
54
Le Raincy, France
Hello;
I also think that the dogleg crank has been mounted for a very long time which could also explain the mounting of the TORRINGTON "8 pedals of Roman style in wood.
Regards;
Serge
 
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Fred Green

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jan 7, 2019
82
60
Sparta, Wi
Serge,
I was also thinking this. Maybe this is a replacement crank and pedals during the war. Great eye!!!

Fred
Sparta
 
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HUFFMANBILL

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jan 9, 2014
115
63
Maryland
Hi Fred,

Well, you're going about this the right way, asking qestions before starting work. There is the slight problem that the answers to some of your questions are not currently known, or, at the least, are debatable.

These are my thoughts, others may know better than me, and I'll be happy to learn too. @Bozman may be the best t answer, since he has owned the very original D51646 which is the closest survivor to yours. See the post halfway down this page : https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=153923&start=15

You may also have already seen these sites to help you:




Here are some of the questions that I have:

1. PEDALS- What style of pedals would have been on it? Rubber/Wood?

Because it's still early war, I think rubber.

2. BELL- Did it come with an issue bell? Who manufactured these?

The bell was produced by Bevin. There are civilian ones that can be obtained and painted.

there is an example here: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/wwii-army-519-od-bevin-bell-vintage-471905970

3. LIGHT- From what I see , it came with a flat top non-embossed 'Delta Winner' front light, Is there a comparable civilian model I could use if I can't find an original?

Yes, it is not specifically a miltary light. Issue ones are in olive drab paint from the packaging, and civilian ones are white, blue and maybe other colours.
See post 13 here https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/sundays-show-and-tell-1-26-20.165161/#post-1116651
And post 36 here https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/my-collection-ww2-g519-military-bikes.128550/page-2#post-1116661

4.GRIPS- I have read that the first issue bikes came with black rubber grips and then they changed to Green plastic. Which style would be probable for this serial number

The black grips.

5.TOOL BAGS- The million dollar question, I see that this is probably the hardest item to find. Are there any reproductions being made?? What is the going price for an original?

There are currently no reproductions.I have bought three originals in the last three years, prices ranged from $50 for the nicest, to $300. It's a question of luck, and how long you want to wait.

6. HUB MARKINGS- I have seen in the threads that the hubs are marked in a specific way. Is there a chart or listing for the entire war?

The front hubs are all marked the same, Eclipse 36-10. The rear hubs are Morrow and dated.

See post 13 for an example of a dated Morrow hub.


The hub is M1, which is M = 1943, 1 = 1st Quarter (ie, Jan - March).

If your hub is original to the bike it is probably L1. Please let us know.

The only list of these numbers for Huffmans is the list I've compiled at post 14 on the same link as above.

I hope this heps.

Best Regards,

Adrian
If I am not mistaken 1942 Huffman D51646, which I believe was previously owned by Craig Johnson is now owned by ChadC in Ca. and has been since around April of last year.
Regards,
Bill
 
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Fred Green

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jan 7, 2019
82
60
Sparta, Wi
Hello,

In less than a week I pick this beauty up!! From the conversation on this thread it appears that the crank and pedals have been replaced. Most likely a wartime period replacement by the look and age. I will see what the rear hub and fork are marked and go from there. Thanks for all the help so far. I am sure that I will be needing more in the future.. A special "Thanks" goes out to HUFFMANBILL for schooling me on correct period saddles. I will be needing one in the future.

Fred
Sparta
 
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ChadC

Look Ma, No Hands!
Mar 24, 2018
60
45
Monterey, CA, USA
Yup! 51646 is sitting in my livingroom next to her sisters, motorized and not....if you need pictures Fred, just ask!!
I have a spare, restored light that I'd let go. I got that before I had 51646! Not sure if mil or civilian. I can get a pic when it gets light out...
 

Fred Green

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jan 7, 2019
82
60
Sparta, Wi
Hello,

Down the road I will be getting back with you chad on some pictures and questions on your bike. At the moment I am packing for the largest Militaria show in the US.

Fred
Sparta
 

Fred Green

Look Ma, No Hands!
Jan 7, 2019
82
60
Sparta, Wi
Hello,

I couldn't tell you the difference between a repainted pre war civilian and a WWII issue. I am sure a couple on this thread can though!!

Fred
Sparta
 

New Mexico Brant

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jul 6, 2016
2,550
50
Santa Fe, New Mexico
www.BrantMackley.com
I also have the civilian model "Winner" front light but with the embossing on the top and missing the knurled knob on the back end.
The Delta model you mentioned above, with the "Winner" embossing is post-war. Others can chime in but my understanding is the only difference between a pre-war civilian and a WWII issue is the OD paint.
 
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