Gramp’s 1941 New World - Trying to get it running as a rat rod bike


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Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
625
3,773
49
Arizona
@GTs58 I’ve been looking at the Brooks since I started this project. They are beautifully made, look the part, and are supposed to be comfortable, but it just wouldn’t be Grandpa’s bike. Kind of like putting lipstick on a pig. I like how ratty the bike is.

I’ve been trying to be patient, and have been keeping my eye out for an original “Lightweight” saddle that would have been on the bike when it was sold. The war-time Worlds mickeyc found last week had them but I’m not interested in buying a whole bike or 2 just to get the beat up saddles.
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Others have said this saddle is not comfortable at all. But really, how much worse could it be than the old compacted carpet foam version of the Monogram S seat I just rocked for over 100 miles, or my MTB seat that has NO padding? I’d like to spend some time restoring a Lightweight saddle with good closed cell foam and new fake leather if it needed it. Might be good enough for me.

Still looking and thinking while I ride my restored Monogram S in matching maroon...
 

Alan Brase

Look Ma, No Hands!
Feb 28, 2019
75
76
70
Cedar Falls, Iowa, USA
I think if Gramps stumbled onto a reasonably priced Brooks, Ideale, or Wrights leather saddle back in the day it would have been his favorite. I think good old ones can be found, then softened back up before riding with generous applications of leather lube of Brooks Proofide.
My favorite would be an Ideale Daniel Rebour logo saddle. (anything that says "Daniel Rebour" is good enough for me.) My 1940 Superior came with one of the cheesey Superior mattress saddles. Sorry, That's not gonna be good enough.
How will you keep the bare metal from rusting? Perhaps you can apply some hard wax, then buff it out?
 

Alan Brase

Look Ma, No Hands!
Feb 28, 2019
75
76
70
Cedar Falls, Iowa, USA
BTW, thank you for the good write up and pictures. I recently bought an almost identical New World, but perhaps 1942 built. And in very incomplete form. Your photos and explaining your work will make mine easier.
 

Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
625
3,773
49
Arizona
Hi Alan,

Thanks for the saddle info. I am still learning what might make sense for my bike and keeping an eye out for something I can bring back to life. The 60s S seat sticks out like sore sore thumb, but it’s my bike.

Your 1942 New World sounds interesting. You need to PM more info or just join in the discussion of these war time bikes here: War Time New Worlds. I want to add it to the list even if it is just a frame.

Glad you are digging this thread. I was hoping people like you would bring more of these bikes back to life after seeing that it is possible to DIY. When it is rolling, you won’t be disappointed. :)
 
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Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
625
3,773
49
Arizona
I cleaned my chain this week and was looking closely at it. It is a Diamond 65 1/2” pitch chain that was normal for this bike and the ND coaster hub that it was equipped with. The chain is 104 joined links + 1 master “hear it pop” link. Gramps added 4 extra links made by “Renold” to the chain to extend it’s length to work with the not standard 24 tooth rear sprocket that is on the bike. Have other people run into this 24 tooth rear sprocket before? I have not seen anyone mention this odd size (seems like 22 teeth was common). The 24 tooth sprocket it Cad plated too.
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Blackbomber

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Aug 23, 2018
742
1,678
44
Unionville, CT
@Miq - I've seen so much of this bike in the "what bike did you ride today" thread, and I'm thrilled to come across this thread for the first time. I had no idea of the provenance of the bike, nor the amount of effort you invested to get it to this point. So well done!
 
Likes: Miq

SirMike1983

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jun 27, 2008
3,099
2,823
United States
My experience with both American coaster and British internal gear cogs is that 24 is less common than 22, which in turn is less common than 20 or 18. They certainly made the larger cogs and the cogs were an option, but they seem to have been much less common than an 18 or 20.

24 would give you quite low gearing, even if you have a 48 front sprocket. It would be really, really low with a front 46. But if you are just concerned about getting uphill, and you coast coming back down, it's something you might do. On the three speeds, Sturmey advised not going lower than 2:1 (front to back).
 

Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
625
3,773
49
Arizona
@Blackbomber Thanks! I’ve had a lot of fun getting here.

@SirMike1983 Thanks for adding that info. I figured they were not as common. The bike was ridden in the steep rolling hills (they say “mountains” back east) of Pennsylvania, so Gramps geared it down to 52/24 = 2.17. It pedals great on the AZ flats even with this low gearing. My legs do have to spin a little fast when it’s zooming though :p
 
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Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
625
3,773
49
Arizona
Wash and Wax Beauty Shots today:
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I hardly ever post pics of the kickstand side of my bike. Chainguard to the camera is the traditional way. I think seeing the mechanics is sexy too... Miller 3 piece kick, Big Arm = Brake ND, bottom bracket body lead fillets, second year rear dropouts...why not??
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This is about as clean as this alley rat ever gets, and it won’t stay this way long on the dusty canal.
 
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Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
625
3,773
49
Arizona
I have been doing a 2000 mile tune up over the past few days. Last night I replaced a couple of broken spokes on the rear hub.

The S-6 rim and New Departure Model D coaster combo uses the same length spoke on both sides of the wheel. I was able to measure an old spoke that broke right at the J-bend at 290mm. I ordered some Chinese carbon steel spokes from Amazon in black to blend in better with the other original rusty spokes. :)
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The 36 hole wheel/hub was laced using the common cross 3 pattern. Getting the replacement spokes inserted in the hub is harder than it looks even with the slot in the sprocket. :) You have to be able to rotate the spoke freely once the J-bend reaches the hole in the hub. Slight bending of the spoke is necessary as you guide it into place, but I was careful not to kink the spoke. Over two under one...
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The new spokes look a little thicker than the originals but they threaded perfectly with the old nipples. Correct length even when tight.
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I mounted the bare wheel on the bike and trued it using the “popsicle taped to the frame” method. The wheel was already pretty true so it didn’t take a lot of adjustments.

The spoke tape that came with the Kenda tires I ordered on line was too narrow for the S-6 rims offset spoke nipples. I had already made correct width tape using a blown out Chinese inner tube cut to the correct width/length when I replaced the tape in the front wheel a few months ago. I finally got a chance to install the new tape in this wheel since it was apart.
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The combo of correct spoke tape width - Goodyear 26” x 1-3/8” Bicycle Inner Tubes - and Kenda K-23 tires has proven to be pretty durable this summer. You get what you pay for with tubes and tape. The Goodyear tubes are WAY better than the Chinese tubes that came with the online Kenda tire package. The tires seat easier and stay inflated longer since I’ve started using them.
 

Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
625
3,773
49
Arizona
Thanks BlkB!! It's a personal treasure and I want to keep riding it for thousands of miles to come. I hope other people will take the time to get these lightweight diamond frame bikes rolling too. Worth it IMHO, especially since they are so affordable when they need a little love.
 

Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
625
3,773
49
Arizona
Pedal clean and re-ball pics from my tune up. Torrington 8
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Not much different than when I cleaned them up in Jan.
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The balls are 3/16” diameter. There are 7 balls per cage, 2 cages per pedal, two pedals on the crank = 28 balls to replace after scrubbing the empty cages.
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Greased them and reassembled. The part you actually have to concentrate on is when you tighten the cone and lock nut. Like all the cone - caged ball - cup arrangements in a bike, you need to pay attention when you lock it in place. It’s really easy to tighten the nut down against the cone slightly too much as you seat everything. It’s a game of very slightly pre-loosening the assembly, then tightening it down to the right spot. You shouldn’t be able to move the axle in and out of the assembly, but it shouldn’t feel tight and bound up either. It doesn’t take that many tries with the small blade screw driver adjusting the cone and cinching down the nut to get it right. But if you don’t screw with it a little, I bet it won’t be smooth and as sealed as it can be.
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rollfaster

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Dec 28, 2012
8,423
8,603
53
Ol' st. Lou
Looks like Simple Green? I love your passion in keeping the memory alive of your Grandpa with his machine, he would be so proud the way you ride and take care of it!
 

rollfaster

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Dec 28, 2012
8,423
8,603
53
Ol' st. Lou
@GTs58 I’ve been looking at the Brooks since I started this project. They are beautifully made, look the part, and are supposed to be comfortable, but it just wouldn’t be Grandpa’s bike. Kind of like putting lipstick on a pig. I like how ratty the bike is.

I’ve been trying to be patient, and have been keeping my eye out for an original “Lightweight” saddle that would have been on the bike when it was sold. The war-time Worlds mickeyc found last week had them but I’m not interested in buying a whole bike or 2 just to get the beat up saddles. View attachment 978707
Others have said this saddle is not comfortable at all. But really, how much worse could it be than the old compacted carpet foam version of the Monogram S seat I just rocked for over 100 miles, or my MTB seat that has NO padding? I’d like to spend some time restoring a Lightweight saddle with good closed cell foam and new fake leather if it needed it. Might be good enough for me.

Still looking and thinking while I ride my restored Monogram S in matching maroon...
The original saddle for my dark red 53 is like this one, it looked cool but like said horribly uncomfortable. It was switched out for a very comfortable Brooks B-72. Still have the original on my parts shelf’s though.

A2C65403-AEAC-4A7C-9C6B-35991209DA65.jpeg
 

Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
625
3,773
49
Arizona
@Alan Brase - Rollfaster nailed it with Simple Green. I'm pretty sure the bike will wear me out before I wear it out. :)

@rollfaster I'm keeping my hopes up that I can find a crusty men’s Mesinger B6 that I can afford and can make comfortable. They are out there. o_O We'll see...
 
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Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
625
3,773
49
Arizona
TROXEL TRANFORM IN TWENTY SEVEN

I won a “Prewar Messinger Long Spring Saddle” on eBay this week and it came in the mail yesterday around 3PM. I kicked off the weekend a little early and started transforming the rusty cobweb infested kootie saddle. Once I tore into it, I realized it was actually a 1930s Troxel Long Spring. Nice too, really nice.
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First trip through cleanup.
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Reassembled and went for a ride last night on the bare metal pan. It was super comfy. :) That was a really good sign.
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Broke it down again this morning and attacked the yellow over-spray paint. It was a formidable foe. I put a lot of love into the carriage using paint thinner, wire toothbrush, and steel wool. It always does wonders.
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The ‘tornado” springs were looking a little short on altitude. More like a southwest dirt devil. Last night I could feel the pan flopping when I unweighted it. It made clacking noises too. I’m not cool with that.
I threw a figure 8 stopper knot on the end of some rope and made a figure 8 on a bight for a foot loop. I hung the spring from a sky chair hook we have on the porch and put a little weight on the spring to stretch it a little. The moccasin insured I didn’t put too much weight on it. :p
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Peened out some of the stuff I didn’t like at the nose of the pan and around the side where it must have crashed a little.
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Painted the top of the saddle to try to stop it from rusting further and preserve it as long as possible, as well as give the adhesive a clean layer to bond to.
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Time to recover...
 
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