Hawthorne Bikes--Manufactured By?? And Serial #?
- Thread starter TieDye
- Start date
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Monark, CWC & Snyder mainly but I think i've seen others including Murry and some English/European built ones, not sure of that serial # tho, seems kinda short!
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fordmike65 and TieDye
MW seemed to have stricter specifications on their suppliers to be uniform than other sellers like Sears but there is always small builder specific details ( frame manufacturing differences, welds, bottom bracket, hardware etc.) to tell the difference. detailed pictures usually tell the story.
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TieDye
The numbers on the BB are the only ones I have found yet. There are none on the rear dropout. I have to move the bike this weekend so I can actually get to it, and pull the tank. I will check under the top downtube and the top of the bottom downtube, where the tank sits, for any other serial numbers. If you need any more pictures, let me know. I will post what I come up with when I physically can reach the bike. I need to clean yuck away from the BB numbers to make sure they are what I think they are.
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Barto and Rides4Fun
Snyder built (construction of frame around BB and hardware is the givaway) late 40's early 50's, looks pretty OG except pedals. Don't know much about Snyder #'s but you can compare yrs, equipment & color/lettering in the Sears/Wards book.
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TieDye and fordmike65
Post #9 might be CWC with the curves in the rear stays - and the chain ring (lazy heart).
Post #1: Montgomery Ward catalogs of the early 1920's show Schwinn-built Deluxe Flyers (Hawthorne bikes).
There are the Great Western Mfg., La Porte IN, built bikes, with the Reading Standard 8-point snowflake chain rings.
Post #6: Post war Snyder bikes often have a serial number 6" below the seat clamp, right hand side, e.g., J-654,321; (newer bikes might be elsewhere).
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/hp-snyder-question.145740/
I believe that later 1940's bikes used aluminum badges, (maybe from recycled bomber aircraft?).
The chrome-plated brass shield badges might be middle-1950's.
Post #1: Montgomery Ward catalogs of the early 1920's show Schwinn-built Deluxe Flyers (Hawthorne bikes).
There are the Great Western Mfg., La Porte IN, built bikes, with the Reading Standard 8-point snowflake chain rings.
Post #6: Post war Snyder bikes often have a serial number 6" below the seat clamp, right hand side, e.g., J-654,321; (newer bikes might be elsewhere).
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/hp-snyder-question.145740/
I believe that later 1940's bikes used aluminum badges, (maybe from recycled bomber aircraft?).
The chrome-plated brass shield badges might be middle-1950's.
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mrg and TieDye
Interesting.... Your headbadge has vertical rivets, and mine is horizontal. If I remember correctly, the older style is horizontal rivets? Also, your fender tips, have they been repainted? And, I think your frame maybe CWC made? Just thinking outloud and hoping someone can clarify right from wrong. Nice bike!!
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@Archie Sturmer and @Phattread BINGO!!!! 6" or so down from the seat clamp, stamped running horizontally is K352347. Thank you so much!! That saved me having to pull my tank at this time. The BB number is 473C. This has me really wondering if this points to a 3rd month of 1947 bike, and C--who knows, model code? Then in the serial number, the 3 there, could it be the month again, followed by 47 for the year? Either this is very coincidental, or I maybe onto something. Hmmmm.........
Deb
Deb
AMF/CWC bikes often have 2-7/8" vertical holes; not necessarily newer or older than your bike, just CWC and not Snyder.
Some CWC-built Hawthorne bikes also have the side holes with brass winged-oval badges.
My 1947 girls Hawthorne has a C-012,345 like serial number, 74EH on bottom, and has aluminum badge with side holes.
The hole in the BB for the chain guard, galvanized parts, metallic paint, (and K-serial), may also suggest early/mid ~1950's.
Some CWC-built Hawthorne bikes also have the side holes with brass winged-oval badges.
My 1947 girls Hawthorne has a C-012,345 like serial number, 74EH on bottom, and has aluminum badge with side holes.
The hole in the BB for the chain guard, galvanized parts, metallic paint, (and K-serial), may also suggest early/mid ~1950's.
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TieDye
@Archie Sturmer Looking at 2 online catalog pictures from 1953 last night, I am seeing the same tank and chainguard decals. When I got the bike, I was told it was most likely a late 1953, and that it was a standard 26" ladies junior equipped type model. Hence the narrow handlebars, the lack of fender tip painting (just pinstripes), etc. So, if yours is a 1947 with a C, then skipping I, that theory would put my bike here a 1954. I've been trying to learn more about all my and my husband's bikes, and this one was my first vintage bike I bought, but the last to get any dating done on it for sure, or to get details as to manufacturer, etc. I love this bike! It rides like a dream. (We've done a bit to her since I got her 4 years ago.)
Decoding is not a science; (what did the guy with a hammer and stamp do, when, where, and what stage).
I had a Snyder-Rollfast bike, with both a "35EH" stamped bottom (i.e., typical 1953), and a K-serial i.d.; so my theory would have required a skipping of both I&J; [but that would contradict a J-serial i.d. Snyder-Hawthorne]. Also had a post-war 1949-E that seemed to fit in line.
So, as with other manufactures, perhaps bottom brackets were stamped as separate parts, thrown in a bin, and later used with a frame, in an assembly step. Thus there may be overlaps of various codes, dates, and stamps. What I try to do, is find a date that I feel comfortable with, based on limited information, and if upon receiving better info, revise my previous assumptions.
For example, I was given a road bike with a documented December 1985 frame serial number (5L), with documented features of the 1986 catalog (Imperial Red paint). So, I call it an 85, 86 or 85/86 - close enough.
And then there are sometimes those odd, unique, or not understood markings, (such as your "473C").
I had a Snyder-Rollfast bike, with both a "35EH" stamped bottom (i.e., typical 1953), and a K-serial i.d.; so my theory would have required a skipping of both I&J; [but that would contradict a J-serial i.d. Snyder-Hawthorne]. Also had a post-war 1949-E that seemed to fit in line.
So, as with other manufactures, perhaps bottom brackets were stamped as separate parts, thrown in a bin, and later used with a frame, in an assembly step. Thus there may be overlaps of various codes, dates, and stamps. What I try to do, is find a date that I feel comfortable with, based on limited information, and if upon receiving better info, revise my previous assumptions.
For example, I was given a road bike with a documented December 1985 frame serial number (5L), with documented features of the 1986 catalog (Imperial Red paint). So, I call it an 85, 86 or 85/86 - close enough.
And then there are sometimes those odd, unique, or not understood markings, (such as your "473C").
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TieDye
Today, I flipped this ladies Hawthorne upside down. I cleaned the area on the BB. Boy, was I wrong about that number there before. I was reading it upside down, and with yuck there, I had it wrong. What I actually saw today was 35EH. So, that confirms what I was thinking since I saw a 1953 catalog page of a boys bike that was just like mine, and what I was told before. It is definitely a 1953 Hawthorne. Finally the uncertainty is over!! Yay!!! I'm a happy lady!! Thanks for your help.
Deb
Deb
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GTs58
@Archie Sturmer mine is stamped 35EH and does have a K serial number on the seat tube, like yours =1953.
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