Heavy Duti questions

[Xlobsterman]

If it's any consolation, out of curiosity I just flipped my 24" 1980 Cruiser 81 badged, over, just to have a looky at the welds.

And well yeah no extra welds but surprisingly the jointing/welding is so tight, smooth, well done it is definitely remarkable. It's not just tacked as I've seen on standard Schwinns or how your HD appears. U can see on yours for all the visual tubing the weld is just under where it meets the tube, like a tack. Mine couldn't have been cut to form. U know, notched to fit the tube at each weld point here at the seat tube, and connections at head post, but but it's so nice, it looks like it.

It looks better than these HD photos where also appears, joints at seat post, as tacked and then a glob is melted on em.

Mine is so well done, it must be a fluke B/C it looks so professional, as if a master welder did it custom vs factory run and electro welds, and really, actually b/c welds are full across and filled full, upper and lower so nicely, like a custom made heavy duty.

IDK so strange, I have nothing to compare it too except maybe Juniors are built better. B/C comparatively, nothing personal, yours looks like crap.

That being said, I didn't want to fool wit what I have B/C friggen pandemic, my wife has not been working, cleaned and organized MY garage. Spit! great looking organization but has to fight to get anything out. So anyways, it took a while but just had to check B/C I have a 1954 24" Canti. frame And, it isn't as nicely welded as my 80 frame but the welds are similar and filled better than your HD is. Connections on all underside points are filled quite well, just a little more sloppy than the 80. junior and, do not seem as they were notched in like my 80 does. The 80 24" has to be a fluke, it's just too dam good, lol

So, I also realized that, with a finger nail, could just stick it in, under the weld spots without digging it all out. 26"inchers Are not HD but 55, 61 and 63 just are like my 54 junior.

I think U got screwed man. Yet, moreover, in your frame, and any others tacked like yours, I think that Schwinn did pull one over on the HD pitch. Certainly yours is unique as far as quality goes. Now, I wonder as, I've since sold my 2, 26" 80 cruisers so,, nothing to check but, I wonder when and how many Cruisers, Spits, Klunks, Americans, Typhoons etc, gots that crap done, underside too? And then, if mostly like my 80 Jr. then, yours Must have been hangover Monday's production line. Or, TGIF party began before the bell rang

Post pics please........

 

[MP12965]

 

[coasterbrakejunkie1969]

View attachment 1407158

Any extra welds on that one? Love and need a yellow boys bike. My wife's breeze is OK for now. Killer bike, is it a repaint?

 

[Goldenrod1]

By offset I take it you mean off-center. At first I couldn't figure out why there was so much clearance between the wheel and the fender. I don't know whether to laugh or cry, but I've got to give you credit for the effort.

You missed an important detail. Note the 1 to1 ratio of the sprockets. It is easy to turn and runs itself if you push the bars on the down stroke like an 1938 Ingo scooter-bike that you jump up and down. We are making a video for the CABE soon.

 

[Jeff54]

If it's any consolation, out of curiosity I just flipped my 24" 1980 Cruiser 81 badged, over, just to have a looky at the welds.

And well yeah no extra welds but surprisingly the jointing/welding is so tight, smooth, well done it is definitely remarkable. It's not just tacked as I've seen on standard Schwinns or how your HD appears. U can see on yours for all the visual tubing the weld is just under where it meets the tube, like a tack. Mine couldn't have been cut to form. U know, notched to fit the tube at each weld point here at the seat tube, and connections at head post, but but it's so nice, it looks like it.

It looks better than these HD photos where also appears, joints at seat post, as tacked and then a glob is melted on em.

Mine is so well done, it must be a fluke B/C it looks so professional, as if a master welder did it custom vs factory run and electro welds, and really, actually heavy duty.

IDK so strange, I have nothing to compare it too except maybe Juniors are built better. B/C comparatively, nothing personal, yours looks like crap.

That being said, I didn't want to fool wit what I have B/C friggen pandemic, my wife has not been working, cleaned and organized MY garage. Spit! great looking organization but has to fight to get anything out. So anyways, it took a while but just had to check B/C I have a 1954 24" Canti. frame And, it isn't as nice as my 80 frame but the welds are similar and filled better than your HD is. Connections on all underside points are filled quite well, just a little more sloppy than the 80. junior and, do not seem as they were notched in like my 80 does. The 80 24" has to be a fluke, it's just too dam good, lol

So, I also realized that, with a finger nail, could just stick it in, under the weld spots without digging it all out. 26"inchers 55, 61, 63 just are like my 54 junior.

I think U got screwed man. Yet, moreover, in your frame, and any others tacked like yours, I think that Schwinn did pull one over on the HD pitch. Certainly yours is unique as far as quality goes. Now, I wonder as, I've since sold my 2, 26" 80 cruisers so,, nothing to check but, I wonder when and how many Cruisers, Spits, Klunks, Americans, Typhoons etc, gots that crap done, underside too? And then, if mostly like my 80 Jr. then, yours Must have been hangover Monday's production line. Or, TGIF party began before the bell rang.

Post pics please........

Yeah, I knew U'd do that, knew better than to get into this pile. . Was hoping a billion words would do it. So, I had to go put my waders on to play more on this subject, charge camera not used in 2 year, blah, blah, blah

So, the 1st are the 54 24"er. you can really see that, it's not brazing filling the gaps moreover looks like mig or tig welding and every point is thick, longer and a little sloppy vs yours. It's rattle can crap blue but was originally Opal Blue. Regardless, the paint is not filling up the area it's all weld and I exposed an area to see the color of it and, sort of sloppy wire or stick an MIG/TIG would do. I believe Schwinn never intended to wipe their butts on the underside as, U no can see and give em extra strength.

Next be the 80, 24"er. Photos didn't come out as swell as the blue did. and it's going to take a bit to show it B/C black is a lot tougher to get good shots so maybe later today. Of course it's not the same type of welding but the more I look at it,, I'm thinking that the reason it looks like it's notched is because they might be pressed together during the electro forging and it's more of a fluke to flex in a little deeper than intended. .

For the time being though the topic of 'Heavy duty' Schwinn bikes verses standard I think came about as Schwinn shifted higher advancements in electro forging that decreased the frames strength. So, apparently they stuck a few tacks, MIG or TIG to strengthen it. I.E. I think that, most everything prior is Heavy-duty, minus a C Crank.

Canti bars, attached are imbalanced on top of photo bar has near twice the amount of weld vs bottom. I do not believe this this is any more different than a 26" would be. I just do not have other than the the two 24"-ers accessible currently.

 

[Xlobsterman]

Yeah, I knew U'd do that, knew better than to get into this pile. . Was hoping a billion words would do it. So, I had to go put my waders on to play more on this subject, charge camera not used in 2 year, blah, blah, blah

So, the 1st are the 54 24"er. you can really see that, it's not brazing filling the gaps moreover looks like mig or tig welding and every point is thick, longer and a little sloppy vs yours. It's rattle can crap blue but was originally Opal Blue. Regardless, the paint is not filling up the area it's all weld and I exposed an area to see the color of it and, sort of sloppy wire or stick an MIG/TIG would do. I believe Schwinn never intended to wipe their butts on the underside as, U no can see and give em extra strength.

Next be the 80, 24"er. Photos didn't come out as swell as the blue did. and it's going to take a bit to show it B/C black is a lot tougher to get good shots so maybe later today. Of course it's not the same type of welding but the more I look at it,, I'm thinking that the reason it looks like it's notched is because they might be pressed together during the electro forging and it's more of a fluke to flex in a little deeper than intended. .

For the time being though the topic of 'Heavy duty' Schwinn bikes verses standard I think came about as Schwinn shifted higher advancements in electro forging that decreased the frames strength. So, apparently they stuck a few tacks, MIG or TIG to strengthen it. I.E. I think that, most everything prior is Heavy-duty, minus a C Crank.

Canti bars, attached are imbalanced on top of photo bar has near twice the amount of weld vs bottom. I do not believe this this is any more different than a 26" would be. I just do not have other than the the two 24"-ers accessible currently.

View attachment 1407262

View attachment 1407264

I only see 2 pics of a blue bike!

 

[Xlobsterman]

So I found another Dealer Catalog page from 1967. Once again, it shows ONLY the King Sized frame as being reinforced.

 

[GTs58]

There was a change in Schwinn's frame building at some point and maybe that is mentioned somewhere in your books. Like I said earlier the cantilever bars are crimped so there is extra contact area for the EF process making the joints stronger at the seat tube. Notice your frame and the one Jeff posted of that 1954 frame. I believe this crimping started in the late 60's but I have no examples to verify when it actually started. All my Corvette frames are like that 54 frame's cantilever bars, but they don't have the added welds done by someone at some point.

 

[Xlobsterman]

There was a change in Schwinn's frame building at some point and maybe that is mentioned somewhere in your books. Like I said earlier the cantilever bars are crimped so there is extra contact area for the EF process making the joints stronger at the seat tube. Notice your frame and the one Jeff posted of that 1954 frame. I believe this crimping started in the late 60's but I have no examples to verify when it actually started. All my Corvette frames are like that 54 frame's cantilever bars, but they don't have the added welds done by someone at some point.

View attachment 1407755

View attachment 1407762

The frame styles of other models is not really relevant to the original topic of the "Heavy Duti" and how it's frames may, or may not have all been reinforced in some way shape or form as some may claim!

So far, from the documentation I have found, it seems like the only frames that were reinforced were the earlier King Sized frames! And it would still be nice to see any documentation from Schwinn stating just how those frames were reinforced?

 

[Jeff54]

I only see 2 pics of a blue bike!

Yeah, as said, difficult to shoot and get the angles I need with the black. But Been looking closer and inspecting, it's just like your yellow, only a little tighter on one side. At first, I thought it's tighter but got to looking more at yours and stuck a flashlight into mine, under, over, and around, and it's actually about the same. That nice bright yellow is a lot easier to shoot. One side is just slight welded tighter than the other and your looks like it may be too. So, once I realized I could see this from above without flipping the frame, my 26" 63 (black) Hornet is near identical to the 80. However, the 80,, its forward canti connections look like they were pressed together while hot and become flexible so, added pressure can form the tube tighter into the bar. It's a real good looking joint on canti too front of bar. And I mean, better than a bead or wraparound weld to reinforce them.

It might be the same in newer frames, around 1980 vs older 60-70's B/C my 80 canti-tubes are open at the tips, a hole- air breather or moisture out let. While the 63 is caped and spot joined; weaker than 54. . That air hole could be allowing the top canti- tubes to flex tighter into the bar. That would be, like, a double improvement to element moisture and strengthen the connection.

As GT mentioned, about the change in frame manufacturing, well, at least it' happened before 63 and I'm thinking 59 sounds like a good spot. . Since the name 'Heavy-Duty showed up in 65 catalog, probably 1st production is summer -fall 64.

Upon seeing these catalogs or order sheets from 67 and 80, I was surprised to note the use of 'Middleweight' at least for the 80 cruiser. " middleweight?' Yet it actually, appears to be what really happened, not in as much as 1954, just because of S7 wheels but at the time This more automated EF machinery system began. I mean, Electro forging wasn't new but, the frames and apparent system , less manpower and increased automation was. I.E. it's not really the wheel sizes but the actual frames in all scales became weaker and lighter. To the extent that, that a full sized cruiser, ballooner became a 'Middleweight' at the same time the factory completely reengineered the system's frame shops, before 1963 to wit..

IDK but maybe that difference we see in earlier frames being stronger, the newer frames, which are basically near same until Chicago closed, were breaking and so, Schwinn beefed em up for 65, 'Heavy-Duti. A neglect had to be solved to entertain a machine suitable as industrial purpose.

It's gone now, a little off topic, subject yet an clearer understanding of what's heavy and the evolution to simplify, less man power and increased automation too achieve the strength and durability Schwinn has been known for.

Understanding this, which I've understood for decades. The faster production moves the greater odds of error slipping through human inspection.

Comparatively, considering the difference of 54-when?, the 'heavy duty', in my opinion, is not as strong as prior.

I think, in your case, Lobster dude, retired, Either Schwinn, cheeped out or it slipped through inspection.

So, ya got a handle of where I can get some, local to me, 5 bucks a pound; yum, yum Lobsters please.

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