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Help identify my tandem

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what steerer diameter did Chater Lea employ for tandem sets?

IIRC the Chater Lea single sets used a steerer of 31/32nds inch


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Was dismantled when I picked it up.
The front fork was chromed almost completely. Except the top 4 in. of
My tandem friend got back to me with his opinion on your tandem and this is what he thinks.
Due to the fact that it has a Chater-Lea headset
he is of the opinion that your tandem was indeed built to order from the Chater-Lea Fittings catalogue.

The original owner could have ordered a set of fittings (lugs, bottom bracket, headset etc, possibly frame tubing too) and had it built up by a local workshop, or commissioned Chater-Lea to arrange all of this work and then deliver the complete frame to the original owner.

As stated before, and illustrated by the period adverts posted by @New Mexico Brant (post #26
above) , Chater-Lea didn't build frames themselves as such, but you could order a frame from them built to one of their numbered designs.

Apparently they produced two double gent's style tandems featuring your tubing configuration.
Here they are from the 1931 catalogue.....
View attachment 1793390

...you could order a 'Model 14', or a 'Model 12B'.
The only difference between them is the choice of a single-sided drivetrain, or a cross-over drivetrain.

Your example has a frame designed to accommodate a single-sided drivetrain as the cut-out in the chainstay shows, and if you zoom in on the above image, you can see this illustrated.....
View attachment 1793391

...from this detail I think it's reasonable to think that you have a tandem built to the Chater-Lea 'Model 12B' design.
Here are the specifications for that model.....
View attachment 1793392

Still no clue as to the actual builder, and chances are we'll never know, but you have a top quality machine nonetheless.

(Images from V-CC library).
Thank you and thank your friend for me.
Will measure frame tomorrow or the next. Will post that is it or the measurements if they are different 0

20230222_120435.jpg
 
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what steerer diameter did Chater Lea employ for tandem sets?

IIRC the Chater Lea single sets used a steerer of 31/32nds inch


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Good question. They seemed to do things slightly differently to everyone else.
I'll see if I can find out.
 
Not sure what thread size they used on the tandem headsets @juvela, you're right that on the solo headsets they used a thread size of 31/32" × 20tpi.
The tandem headsets are for a 1 1/8" steerer tube and use different sizes of bearings in the top and bottom races, as detailed here.....
Screenshot_20230225-082604_Drive.jpg


...Hillary Stone sold this C-L tandem headset in the past.....
Screenshot_20230225-081630_Chrome.jpg


...he also makes the point that the tandem crown race will only fit a frame made for this particular headclip headset, which is what my friend also said.
So obviously the frames headtube has a slightly different internal diameter to a headtube made for the far more common 'Brampton' headclip headset.
But what that size actually is I couldn't say.

(Images from V-CC library and Hillary Stone).
 
My tandem friend got back to me with his opinion on your tandem and this is what he thinks.
Due to the fact that it has a Chater-Lea headset
he is of the opinion that your tandem was indeed built to order from the Chater-Lea Fittings catalogue.

The original owner could have ordered a set of fittings (lugs, bottom bracket, headset etc, possibly frame tubing too) and had it built up by a local workshop, or commissioned Chater-Lea to arrange all of this work and then deliver the complete frame to the original owner.

As stated before, and illustrated by the period adverts posted by @New Mexico Brant (post #26
above) , Chater-Lea didn't build frames themselves as such, but you could order a frame from them built to one of their numbered designs.

Apparently they produced two double gent's style tandems featuring your tubing configuration.
Here they are from the 1931 catalogue.....
View attachment 1793390

...you could order a 'Model 14', or a 'Model 12B'.
The only difference between them is the choice of a single-sided drivetrain, or a cross-over drivetrain.

Your example has a frame designed to accommodate a single-sided drivetrain as the cut-out in the chainstay shows, and if you zoom in on the above image, you can see this illustrated.....
View attachment 1793391

...from this detail I think it's reasonable to think that you have a tandem built to the Chater-Lea 'Model 12B' design.
Here are the specifications for that model.....
View attachment 1793392

Still no clue as to the actual builder, and chances are we'll never know, but you have a top quality machine nonetheless.,

(Images from V-CC library).
Hello again. I compared all the measurements for the 12B. My bicycle fork has one difference, the distance between the front forks i measured 4 1/4". Was thinking when the wheels with the drum brakes where added maybe they spread the tubes to fit the newer wheels. The attachments you added are extremely helpful with tech info. By chance do you have any pages with the other parts such as cranks, chain rings, wheel component's etc. Seriously thinking of restoring it to original as in 1931. going to take me a few years or more do to the financial cost to search, secure, shipping to obtain each piece but i believe will be well worth it. saving a little part of history and go for a ride. In Yuma Arizona once a year a 100 or so bicyclist get together for a PUB RUN. 6 mile ride stopping at six bars. seen some vintage bikes in the group along with every kind to date. Unfortunately the leather part of the seats can not be saved. The cables as most parts where left in a plastic tub outside, rusty is a understatement to say the least. White vinegar soak everything and see what i have. please pass the word i am seeking parts for this project. Oh, colors..there was some little blue as in baby blue. do you know if this was a period correct or was it open to any color available at that era in time?

I thank you again for your help and everyone else.
 
I would think "Baby Blue" would be acceptable.
I'll see what I can find out re. components for you.
 
As stated before, all of these were 'custom builds' as such, so no two examples may have been the same. So you can't really go wrong with whatever you choose to employ.
Here are some pages from the 1931 'Chater-Lea' catalogue, showing what else was available from them.....
Screenshot_20230305-081303_Drive.jpg


Screenshot_20230305-081317_Drive.jpg


Screenshot_20230305-081330_Drive.jpg


Screenshot_20230305-081353_Drive.jpg


Screenshot_20230305-084104_Drive.jpg


Screenshot_20230305-081414_Drive.jpg


Screenshot_20230305-081423_Drive.jpg


Screenshot_20230305-081431_Drive.jpg


Personally, I feel that finding a lot of these items would be a long, difficult task.
I would be inclined to also try and source other contemporary parts that were also available from manufacturers such as Brampton, Phillips and others, items such as wheel hubs, pedals, handlebars etc; these are likely to be easier to find, and substantially cheaper, as the name 'Chater-Lea' does add a bit of a premium to the prices asked.
For saddles, obviously Brooks, Lycett, Mansfield or any other British maker would be appropriate.
I would stick with the cranks and seat stems you already have, but obviously it's up to you.

You should bear in mind that this project would never be worth the amount of money you would have in it if you took the time to source exclusively 'Chater-Lea' componentry.
It would be a 'labour of love'.
Good luck, and if you need any help don't hesitate to ask.

(Images from V-CC library).
 
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As stated before, all of these were 'custom builds' as such, so no two examples may have been the same. So you can't really go wrong with whatever you choose to employ.
Here are some pages from the 1931 'Chater-Lea' catalogue, showing what else was available from them.....
View attachment 1798211

View attachment 1798212

View attachment 1798213

View attachment 1798214

View attachment 1798221

View attachment 1798215

View attachment 1798216

View attachment 1798217

Personally, I feel that finding a lot of these items would be a long, difficult task.
I would be inclined to also try and source other contemporary parts that were also available from manufacturers such as Brampton, Phillips and others, items such as wheel hubs, pedals, handlebars etc; these are likely to be easier to find, and substantially cheaper, as the name 'Chater-Lea' does add a bit of a premium to the prices asked.
For saddles, obviously Brooks, Lycett, Mansfield or any other British maker would be appropriate.
I would stick with the cranks and seat stems you already have, but obviously it's up to you.

You should bear in mind that this project would never be worth the amount of money you would have in it if you took the time to source exclusively 'Chater-Lea' componentry.
It would be a 'labour of love'.
Good luck, and if you need any help don't hesitate to ask.

(Images from V-CC library).
Thank you for the pages.
I do agree it will take time and money. Have the talent to do all the work myself and that saves a lot of money. Got lucky last month in a way. That my land lord had a 30 bicycles that he wanted gone. Some were high quality modern bicycles which I saves the enough pieces to put together a $900.00 bike. With those can put the tandem on the road and as find the missing Chater-Lea components at a really good price I will remove the part off the bike and sell it. Putting the Chater-Lea on. Gives me back some of the monet. When complete then dismantled the bike. Have the parts rechromed as I paint it. A labor of love yes. To say I have one, priceless. To leave it to sell to a collector or leave it to a museum. Either way a tiny piece of English bicycling is saved. Learned over my life time if one is patient and keeps a eye out anything can be bought for a very good price and sometimes for a discount when the seller realizes it is for a complete restoration. It is when a person wants it now a heavy price is paid. Just last week a women sold 3 bicycles for $10.00. Wheels off but all there. 2 Chinese cheap throw away but one was a $2,000.00 high end pro racing Japanese bike. Was to late to get them but someone got the deal of the of a life time.

I have no clue what the value will be when done. Heck there could hundreds of them in Europe. Didn't find a single one on my internet search. If it turns out I somehow ended up with that only model left then it is well worth doing. Plus if I can not complete the bike then will sell it to someone who can. I paid $30.00 for it. Gives me room to spend some.
Did inform the sell I got it from what it is and my plans. Going to keep them updated. We both thought the 1950's or 60's. With the parts I have, nice paint and put it together and sell it for $300.00. Now I have to think hard which way to go.
There is no doubt everything is in Europe it needs. Not unless I happen to get real lucky and find a old Chater-Lea at a yard sale.

You have been a tremendous help education me on this endeavor. The knowledge I gained alone is with buying the bike. To far down the rabbit hole to stop now but my soon to be wife is not overly joked with me right now. Lol to much time reading everything I can. Looking up parts for a rough price. Yes I already have a hundred hours in it.
You see I have 4 trucks to complete, a Sandra's, electric mountain bike I am putting together. 5th wheel R.V. us 20 more things. Slowly they come together. Can spend a fortune now to finish them or keep searching for a good price. Always find at least one part a week.
Anyway thank you again.
This Forum is amazing.
 
Hello.
Today I came across a tandem frame that the chain stay has the same notch for the inner chain ring. Some of their single racing bicycles also have the notch. The company I'd G.A. cycles of London. Looked at hundreds of single and tandem manufacturers and so far only G.A. cycles have that type of notch. Do you know anything about G.A. cycles? Not much information over here about the company. The frame I seen was a 1936. Frame only. No components at all.
 
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